Christians want everyone to be Christian, they want Christian schools, they want a Christian nation, so they project that gay people want all the same things. That gay people want everyone to be gay, have gay schools, a gay country, etc. It’s all projection.
i think your kinda lumping alot of people in to a group. people are people, it doesnt matter what religion, race or ethnicity. People will abuse power be hateful and do stupid things. saying one group of people want one thing and one thing only is bias and projection and stereotyping upon your part
May as well give up on these people, they aren’t capable of nuance.
The funniest part to me though is they’re saying all these wild things about how Christians feel about gay people yet I rarely experience it myself. But daaaaamn the moment I mention I’m also a Christian they full-on seethe.
I am Christian (I’m not out to go modify non-Christians though and have a lot of misgivings about the way other Christians have been approaching the topic) and have been in the church basically my whole life and can echo what u/BarqsHasBite stated. The big fear from their end is LGBTQIA+ folks “converting” the children to change the nation. Spend enough time looking at liberal-based news (I imagine you don’t want to, that’s fine but it needs to be said) and you’ll see lots of examples of Christian vitriol against LGBTQIA+ in a very un-Christ-like manner. If you’re not seeing it around you, you’re lucky.
“It’s bigotry and they’ve fully embraced it.”
As a Christian talking to a Christian, I’m astounded you don’t understand the nature of the culture war going on. One side views homosexuality as a horror that needs to be snuffed out, and the other side views it as a major component of their person that is inseparable. One side wants homosexuality to die and the other side views that as a threat against their person. One side is using the Republican party to attack availability of transgender services that a good chunk of the other side relies on to live because they have followed their gender dysphoria through to personal body modification.
You and a lot of other Christians in this country need to stop with the persecution claims and crawl out from under your rock and have some open dialogue with your fellow Americans or citizens of whatever country you’re in and stop cowering behind your pride and ego. It’s fair to be viewed with mistrust when others of your faith are attacking what they are standing for. We are being intolerant of their choices and then crying intolerance and that is plain idiotic.
The person you’re responding to, Eleazor, just commented to me a week later: “I’m sorry but yes, you should consider bottom surgery mutilation. There’s a difference between the other things but I’m sure you’re missing it.”
That isn’t nuance, it’s unhinged rambling about stuff I never said, at all. I especially didn’t “cast stones on the queers”. I’m gay, I wouldn’t do that. I cherish gay rights and gay marriage deeply.
I also don’t think sexual or gender identity, or religion, is a baseline for someone doing something that horrible.
No, this is all you projecting your persecution fetish onto people you most likely never interact with. Pretty bigoted take honestly.
The very opposite is in fact true. I’m gay and go to a Christian church, they speak of love and acceptance for all. If there are actually any who fit your explanation they’re an incredibly small minority that actual Christians disagree with.
You must be going to one of those Heresy churches like Unitarian or something.
Cuz lemme tell you I’m from “da souf” and love and acceptable are curse words in the typical southern church. All fire all brimstone and the gays gonna get ya as well as the blue hair demon rats.
You had your more lib churches there and goddamn you might as well went to the Satanic Temple cuz theyd probably treat you better (misguided vs absolute heretic).
Tbh everything good about religion can be replaced with the simple golden rule and idk spirits n shit.
Southern Florida, Christian church. The only time I’ve encountered anyone like what your describing has been at pride parades, ironically.
I believe you’re greatly over-exaggerating their existence because you hate all religious people and are trying to convince yourself you’re not a bigot when you obviously are.
The majority of people on Earth are religious. You’ll find “replacing” their beliefs to be impossible. Perhaps you should consider being more tolerant instead of living in a hateful fantasy world.
Lol Florida huh? Your governor is the perfect, textbook example of a theocratical fascist but you probably adore that Adolf and his open gay hate and nazi book burnings.
The majority of the real world doesn’t want your fairy tales forced upon us.
I spent years in southern Florida and can confidently say that this person has either been beyond sheltered for their entire life until this exact comment section, or they’re lying to make a bad faith argument. Most people I met there have the kind of political views you’d expect from someone that likes DeSantis, and will make sure you’re very aware of that.
You must have never met any gay people here before then because I can’t think of anyone I know who supports DeSantis.
I don’t know why anyone would assume that living here automatically means you do. That’s not true for any state. My area is also incredibly diverse, I’m sorry but your experience sounds fictitious to me.
I can’t think of anyone I know who supports DeSantis.
How did he get elected then? I’m happy for you that you live in a bubble of diversity, tolerance, and equality, but maybe you should give some thought to those in your state who don’t.
Uhh what? You completely misunderstood me. I was referring to people that show up to protest pride with hateful signs and megaphones. I’m being genuine here.
You should educate yourself, my friend. Following the teachings of Jesus Christ is fine but being a denominational Christian is another thing all together. You are part of a cult where all you are is a means to an end.
I’m not removing comments replying to you just as I am not removing your comment.
Provided it maintains a level of respect and decorum when conversing I have no qualms with anybody discussing and debating.
Keep it civil, no personal attacks, no offensive language etc…
Bro, I don’t know how you missed this, but your church is the minority among Christians. I come from a large Christian family so I’m not saying that as someone who hates Christians, I’m saying that as someone with two eyes and common sense. And I’m also someone who is not straight so I’m also speaking from experience myself. Christians who ignore these issues within their community are only enabling them. I get that you feel defensive about your religion because it’s a part of who you are so an attack on it feels like an attack on you, but if you really care about it then you should be motivated to work on improving it so it can live up to your love for it, instead of getting mad at people for being rightfully unhappy about a group that has a long, long history of abusing lgbt people, and which hasn’t exactly done a lot in recent years to improve their reputation.
It’s great that you have found a church that works for you. However, it is Christian evangelicals that are driving the US headlong into authoritarian right wing politics age the demonization of LGBTQ+ groups and individuals.
You also don’t get to say, “those people are not real Christians because they believe differently to me.” They are real Christians.
I encourage you not to internalize something that doesn’t apply to you. Instead maybe look to the behavior of your fellow believers as to why your religion gets criticized, and even call them out for their shitty beliefs and actions.
I’m glad your Christian church is open and affirming. So is mine. If there’s LGBTQ+ people out there who would like to try going to an open and affirming church, I can recommend UCC.org
But we can’t and mustn’t deny that a lot of Christian churches have been and absolutely still are hateful towards people who are LGBTQ+ and force them to try to hide or deny their identity. The mealy-mouthed “Love the sinner, hate the sin” means they’re just trying to deny their own sin by pretending they aren’t breaking “and love thy neighbor as thyself.” To just say such people and churches are not “actual Christians” is denial at its laziest and enables them to continue unchecked.
And don’t get me started on whole denominations that refuse to allow women to fill positions of power such as pastor or priest. They’re not going to be ordaining any trans people either.
Nice quote I’ve heard literally nobody say before this post. What’s your point? I’m speaking from experience when I say these views are wildly unpopular among Christians.
The person you’re responding to, Eleazor, just commented to me a week later: “I’m sorry but yes, you should consider bottom surgery mutilation. There’s a difference between the other things but I’m sure you’re missing it.”
Then how come they’re all you see on the national stage? Why are all of the “deeply religious Christian” charlatans backed by the Republican Party and their base?
It isn’t unpopular. I wish it was. It’s a twofold task though to make them unpopular. Christians need to decry the homophobic and bigoted “Christians” to create internal pressure while others create external pressure.
As someone who lives in a southern town surrounded by “Christians” that would definitely be going to hell if they believed even the smallest fraction of what they pretend, your stance is ridiculous.
Transphobic ones are even more common. The person you’re responding to, Eleazor, just commented to me a week later: “I’m sorry but yes, you should consider bottom surgery mutilation. There’s a difference between the other things but I’m sure you’re missing it.”
Who cares who it was “truly” written and who cares if the word “homosexuality” isn’t literally in the Bible? The King James Bible, which was written in 1622, is the most commonly-used English language Bible and it’s unapologetically anti-gay (ironic, since James himself was gay).
And I call bullshit on the Leviticus part. Firstly because putting the young boy to death as well makes no sense and secondly because I would find it hard to believe that ancient Jews who had over 600 laws about what you shouldn’t be doing were just fine with the gay stuff.
The King James Bible, which was written in 1622, is the most commonly-used English language Bible and it’s unapologetically anti-gay (ironic, since James himself was gay)
It was also a translation of the original Hebrew, which we’re learning in recent years was full of errors.
putting the young boy to death as well makes no sense
Where…does it imply that in the text?
I would find it hard to believe that ancient Jews who had over 600 laws about what you shouldn’t be doing were just fine with the gay stuff.
It’s absolutely possible, even if not necessarily true. Multiple historical accounts imply much of the anti-gay stuff was falsified or only in specific communities.
Leviticus 20:13 - If a man lies with a man as one lies with a woman, both of them have done what is detestable. They must be put to death; their blood will be on their own heads.
So, again, if it’s a man raping a child, why kill the child?
I think this is a dangerous rabbit hole to go down. The vast majority of religions cherry-pick from their religious texts. Arguing that Christians fundamentally can’t be tolerant of gay people because of Leviticus is basically conceding them to hatred. It’s also an argument frequently used by the right to spark hatred Western minority religions like Islam because the Qu’ran says a lot of messed up stuff like the Bible does.
There are Christian denominations that openly accept gay people and I don’t think it’s wise to claim they aren’t “real” Christians because of a few passages from a text written by dozens if not hundreds of people that already contradicts itself repeatedly.
Glad your accepting christian church took my rights to safe medical procedures in the event of an unviable pregnancy. Bunch of christians I have never interacted with felt fine doing that to me. So I feel fine hating them
but go on claim you think abortion is murder while advocating against sex education, the thing proven to reduce abortions - and for abortion-bans, which don’t reduce abortions at all, and increase deaths in child-birth. Maybe I’m starting to think that you’re the murderer.
Christians want everyone to be Christian, they want Christian schools, they want a Christian nation, so they project that gay people want all the same things. That gay people want everyone to be gay, have gay schools, a gay country, etc. It’s all projection.
I want everyone to be gay.
It worked, I’m gay
Excellent. The plan is working.
The Gay Agenda strikes again!
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What happened when you were five?
They became gay, of course
You hit a milestone of brain development and start understanding other people (and yourself) have independent thoughts, preferences, etc.
This statement is misrepresenting us disorganized gays. I don’t have an agenda, I’m late to everything!
Username half checks out?
What, bi isn’t good enough?
i think your kinda lumping alot of people in to a group. people are people, it doesnt matter what religion, race or ethnicity. People will abuse power be hateful and do stupid things. saying one group of people want one thing and one thing only is bias and projection and stereotyping upon your part
May as well give up on these people, they aren’t capable of nuance.
The funniest part to me though is they’re saying all these wild things about how Christians feel about gay people yet I rarely experience it myself. But daaaaamn the moment I mention I’m also a Christian they full-on seethe.
It’s bigotry and they’ve fully embraced it.
I am Christian (I’m not out to go modify non-Christians though and have a lot of misgivings about the way other Christians have been approaching the topic) and have been in the church basically my whole life and can echo what u/BarqsHasBite stated. The big fear from their end is LGBTQIA+ folks “converting” the children to change the nation. Spend enough time looking at liberal-based news (I imagine you don’t want to, that’s fine but it needs to be said) and you’ll see lots of examples of Christian vitriol against LGBTQIA+ in a very un-Christ-like manner. If you’re not seeing it around you, you’re lucky.
“It’s bigotry and they’ve fully embraced it.”
As a Christian talking to a Christian, I’m astounded you don’t understand the nature of the culture war going on. One side views homosexuality as a horror that needs to be snuffed out, and the other side views it as a major component of their person that is inseparable. One side wants homosexuality to die and the other side views that as a threat against their person. One side is using the Republican party to attack availability of transgender services that a good chunk of the other side relies on to live because they have followed their gender dysphoria through to personal body modification.
You and a lot of other Christians in this country need to stop with the persecution claims and crawl out from under your rock and have some open dialogue with your fellow Americans or citizens of whatever country you’re in and stop cowering behind your pride and ego. It’s fair to be viewed with mistrust when others of your faith are attacking what they are standing for. We are being intolerant of their choices and then crying intolerance and that is plain idiotic.
The person you’re responding to, Eleazor, just commented to me a week later: “I’m sorry but yes, you should consider bottom surgery mutilation. There’s a difference between the other things but I’m sure you’re missing it.”
Girl, the only thing I don’t tolerate is intolerance. Look that shit up in between you bible verses about slavery and killing fig trees and shit.
This guy bibles.
Damn crazy how your anecdotal experience doesn’t change what the majority of christians stand for
.
That isn’t nuance, it’s unhinged rambling about stuff I never said, at all. I especially didn’t “cast stones on the queers”. I’m gay, I wouldn’t do that. I cherish gay rights and gay marriage deeply.
I also don’t think sexual or gender identity, or religion, is a baseline for someone doing something that horrible.
No, this is all you projecting your persecution fetish onto people you most likely never interact with. Pretty bigoted take honestly.
The very opposite is in fact true. I’m gay and go to a Christian church, they speak of love and acceptance for all. If there are actually any who fit your explanation they’re an incredibly small minority that actual Christians disagree with.
You must be going to one of those Heresy churches like Unitarian or something.
Cuz lemme tell you I’m from “da souf” and love and acceptable are curse words in the typical southern church. All fire all brimstone and the gays gonna get ya as well as the blue hair demon rats.
You had your more lib churches there and goddamn you might as well went to the Satanic Temple cuz theyd probably treat you better (misguided vs absolute heretic).
Tbh everything good about religion can be replaced with the simple golden rule and idk spirits n shit.
Southern Florida, Christian church. The only time I’ve encountered anyone like what your describing has been at pride parades, ironically.
I believe you’re greatly over-exaggerating their existence because you hate all religious people and are trying to convince yourself you’re not a bigot when you obviously are.
The majority of people on Earth are religious. You’ll find “replacing” their beliefs to be impossible. Perhaps you should consider being more tolerant instead of living in a hateful fantasy world.
Lol Florida huh? Your governor is the perfect, textbook example of a theocratical fascist but you probably adore that Adolf and his open gay hate and nazi book burnings.
The majority of the real world doesn’t want your fairy tales forced upon us.
Calm down Audrey Hale.
I spent years in southern Florida and can confidently say that this person has either been beyond sheltered for their entire life until this exact comment section, or they’re lying to make a bad faith argument. Most people I met there have the kind of political views you’d expect from someone that likes DeSantis, and will make sure you’re very aware of that.
You must have never met any gay people here before then because I can’t think of anyone I know who supports DeSantis.
I don’t know why anyone would assume that living here automatically means you do. That’s not true for any state. My area is also incredibly diverse, I’m sorry but your experience sounds fictitious to me.
How did he get elected then? I’m happy for you that you live in a bubble of diversity, tolerance, and equality, but maybe you should give some thought to those in your state who don’t.
Really incredible to claim their experience fictitious immediately after saying you live in a diverse area
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Uhh what? You completely misunderstood me. I was referring to people that show up to protest pride with hateful signs and megaphones. I’m being genuine here.
People are allowed to disagree with you and your beliefs without them being a bigot.
Also, your Bible hates you, who is the one living in a fantasy world?
More bigotry huh? Yawn.
You should educate yourself, my friend. Following the teachings of Jesus Christ is fine but being a denominational Christian is another thing all together. You are part of a cult where all you are is a means to an end.
Night of the Long Knives, my friend.
I’m not removing comments replying to you just as I am not removing your comment.
Provided it maintains a level of respect and decorum when conversing I have no qualms with anybody discussing and debating. Keep it civil, no personal attacks, no offensive language etc…
That’s how shit works around here.
That’s fair. At the time I was taking some of it personal but I shouldn’t. People are entitled to their opinions and I respect that.
Golden rule being “don’t be an asshole”?
‘treat others as you want to be treated’
Unless you’re a masochist.
You make a lot of sense
Bro, I don’t know how you missed this, but your church is the minority among Christians. I come from a large Christian family so I’m not saying that as someone who hates Christians, I’m saying that as someone with two eyes and common sense. And I’m also someone who is not straight so I’m also speaking from experience myself. Christians who ignore these issues within their community are only enabling them. I get that you feel defensive about your religion because it’s a part of who you are so an attack on it feels like an attack on you, but if you really care about it then you should be motivated to work on improving it so it can live up to your love for it, instead of getting mad at people for being rightfully unhappy about a group that has a long, long history of abusing lgbt people, and which hasn’t exactly done a lot in recent years to improve their reputation.
It’s great that you have found a church that works for you. However, it is Christian evangelicals that are driving the US headlong into authoritarian right wing politics age the demonization of LGBTQ+ groups and individuals.
You also don’t get to say, “those people are not real Christians because they believe differently to me.” They are real Christians.
I encourage you not to internalize something that doesn’t apply to you. Instead maybe look to the behavior of your fellow believers as to why your religion gets criticized, and even call them out for their shitty beliefs and actions.
I’m glad your Christian church is open and affirming. So is mine. If there’s LGBTQ+ people out there who would like to try going to an open and affirming church, I can recommend UCC.org
But we can’t and mustn’t deny that a lot of Christian churches have been and absolutely still are hateful towards people who are LGBTQ+ and force them to try to hide or deny their identity. The mealy-mouthed “Love the sinner, hate the sin” means they’re just trying to deny their own sin by pretending they aren’t breaking “and love thy neighbor as thyself.” To just say such people and churches are not “actual Christians” is denial at its laziest and enables them to continue unchecked.
And don’t get me started on whole denominations that refuse to allow women to fill positions of power such as pastor or priest. They’re not going to be ordaining any trans people either.
[Points to post]:
Nice quote I’ve heard literally nobody say before this post. What’s your point? I’m speaking from experience when I say these views are wildly unpopular among Christians.
‘Homophobic Christians arent a thing’ isn’t the hot take I thought I’d see on lemmy, but there it is.
The person you’re responding to, Eleazor, just commented to me a week later: “I’m sorry but yes, you should consider bottom surgery mutilation. There’s a difference between the other things but I’m sure you’re missing it.”
Nah, didn’t say that. Wildly unpopular though, yes.
Then how come they’re all you see on the national stage? Why are all of the “deeply religious Christian” charlatans backed by the Republican Party and their base?
It isn’t unpopular. I wish it was. It’s a twofold task though to make them unpopular. Christians need to decry the homophobic and bigoted “Christians” to create internal pressure while others create external pressure.
As someone who lives in a southern town surrounded by “Christians” that would definitely be going to hell if they believed even the smallest fraction of what they pretend, your stance is ridiculous.
Homophobic Christians are so common it’s crazy. I don’t know what sort of luck you have lol, or whether you just live life with your head in the sand.
Transphobic ones are even more common. The person you’re responding to, Eleazor, just commented to me a week later: “I’m sorry but yes, you should consider bottom surgery mutilation. There’s a difference between the other things but I’m sure you’re missing it.”
Bruhhh
Then they need to stop voting for people that hold these views.
This has to be the most elaborate troll
Not even that elaborate tbh, pretty standard operating procedure for these “people” tbh.
Leviticus 18:22 ~ You shall not lie with a male as with a woman; it is an abomination
I’m glad you found a church that doesn’t teach the Bible.
I am pretty sure they do different stuff with the males than they would with a woman.
Ancient greeks in shambles.
Who cares who it was “truly” written and who cares if the word “homosexuality” isn’t literally in the Bible? The King James Bible, which was written in 1622, is the most commonly-used English language Bible and it’s unapologetically anti-gay (ironic, since James himself was gay).
And I call bullshit on the Leviticus part. Firstly because putting the young boy to death as well makes no sense and secondly because I would find it hard to believe that ancient Jews who had over 600 laws about what you shouldn’t be doing were just fine with the gay stuff.
It was also a translation of the original Hebrew, which we’re learning in recent years was full of errors.
Where…does it imply that in the text?
It’s absolutely possible, even if not necessarily true. Multiple historical accounts imply much of the anti-gay stuff was falsified or only in specific communities.
Leviticus 20:13 - If a man lies with a man as one lies with a woman, both of them have done what is detestable. They must be put to death; their blood will be on their own heads.
So, again, if it’s a man raping a child, why kill the child?
Do you think a movie with powerful enough propaganda could make you gay?
No?
Well then what gives you the ego to say that everyone else is so weak that they could be tricked, yet you are the strong one?
Seriously. That’s the question. The fall of people. The powerful main character syndrome they have.
I think this is a dangerous rabbit hole to go down. The vast majority of religions cherry-pick from their religious texts. Arguing that Christians fundamentally can’t be tolerant of gay people because of Leviticus is basically conceding them to hatred. It’s also an argument frequently used by the right to spark hatred Western minority religions like Islam because the Qu’ran says a lot of messed up stuff like the Bible does.
There are Christian denominations that openly accept gay people and I don’t think it’s wise to claim they aren’t “real” Christians because of a few passages from a text written by dozens if not hundreds of people that already contradicts itself repeatedly.
I’m sorry but I simply disagree. Hypocrisy needs to be called out and the absurdity of religion needs to be called out.
The fact that this guy’s church is nice to gays does not make up for the hate and death religion has brought to the gay community.
I’m pointing out the ridiculousness of a church that’s pro gay, while I also point out the evil of churches that are anti gay.
I don’t have to pick the lesser of two evils becuase they are both evil, lying and manipulative.
Most likely never interact with?
You mean the same people writing laws against abortions or against trans people? They’re coming for gay people next, I guarantee you that much.
/asagayman
Glad your accepting christian church took my rights to safe medical procedures in the event of an unviable pregnancy. Bunch of christians I have never interacted with felt fine doing that to me. So I feel fine hating them
but go on claim you think abortion is murder while advocating against sex education, the thing proven to reduce abortions - and for abortion-bans, which don’t reduce abortions at all, and increase deaths in child-birth. Maybe I’m starting to think that you’re the murderer.
Bro, get a real hobby, go outside make some friends, stop wasting your life doing this shit.