• @FireMyth
    link
    English
    911 months ago

    Having spent SIGNIFICANT time in all parts of ukraine I can safely say they are a varied people. Russian speaking Ukrainians and non Russian speaking I heard numerous pro ussr and pro west ideas. Non of what you said points to zelensky being as bad as or worse than put in. Pretty much everyone likes him regardless of personal political feelings.

    • OrangeSlice
      link
      fedilink
      English
      611 months ago

      Sure, like I said I don’t think it’s really important who is “worse”, it’s not a useful topic of discussion.

      I did want to make a couple of counterpoints though

      • just cause Zelensky is popular, doesn’t necessarily make him a better leader. If we were to do a comparison (which we shouldn’t!) Putin is also widely popular along Russians. In both cases support for a wartime leader is going to rally, especially in Ukraine.
      • you certainly have infinitely more experience in the country than I do (dividing by zero ofc haha), but wouldn’t you have run into some of the same biases coming in as a foreigner (or foreign-born)? I don’t know your itinerary, and I’m not asking you to share, but the who, when and where is gonna make a difference.
      • as an example, I was interested in the interviews of the first two people in this video that I saw recently [watch starting at 3:15 till about 20 mins in]: https://youtu.be/drhgjxSJG6M located in the warzone in eastern Ukraine. Both are supportive of the Russian forces and appear to claim that such support in their local area is widespread.
      • @pingveno@lemmy.ml
        link
        fedilink
        English
        611 months ago

        Careful with that YouTube channel. Patrick Lancaster may be American, but everything he’s produced recently is essentially pro-Russian propaganda. Many (most?) of his videos are either misleading or staged.

        • OrangeSlice
          link
          fedilink
          English
          411 months ago

          Can you substantiate that? I’m only tangentially familiar with his work. He’s certainly softer on Russia than other sources, but is he doing more than bringing “balance” to the conversation?

          Watching the clip I showed, I could suspect that he may be leaving out other interviews he did where people were more pro-ukrainian, but at the same time, the woman in the video claims that about 80% of the town supports Russia, which would line up with what I previously understood about the politics of their region.

          I don’t particularly care that much about the guys personal politics, and I haven’t had that much exposure to them, since my only interest so far has been these two interviews which I personally interpret as primary sources. I would in now way claim that these two people speak for anyone besides themselves, but what they both say is loosely backed up by the data I’ve seen.

          • @pingveno@lemmy.ml
            link
            fedilink
            English
            211 months ago

            Fair question. First, I would not characterize what he does as being softer on Russia to bring balance. Some of his videos have been exposed as just being lies. That casts doubt on the rest, since ultimately you kind of just have to trust him. And before someone pops up to complain about Ukraine, yes Ukraine engages in propaganda as well. I am only cautioning against considering this source as being trustworthy.

            I could try to give a rundown of him, but it would look a lot like his Wikipedia article so I will just point you there.

            • OrangeSlice
              link
              fedilink
              English
              011 months ago

              Fair, I’d be interested in examples, since I mostly know of him from seeing people talk about him on Lemmygrad or wherever (who have their own issues, of course). I can go find them myself though, I appreciate you giving me a general idea about what’s up wtih the guy.

              I do appreciate him bringing these interviews on the ground, but I always want to do my best to account for bias and spin, even for things like that that appear straightforward. I haven’t even watched the second half of the video cause I figured it would feature him more (maybe that assumption was incorrect idk).

              Definitely sounds like a crackpot who shouldn’t be taken too seriously from Wikipedia though. I just think calling something “propaganda” is a shallow criticism on its own.

              • @pingveno@lemmy.ml
                link
                fedilink
                English
                111 months ago

                I watched through one of his videos. If memory serves, it was him wandering around Mariupol right after the Russians finished turning it into rubble. He happened upon a man who told him how wonderful the Russians were. All this in what were supposedly the ashes of his hometown. It was the most transparently staged bullshit I’ve ever seen. Probably a Russian soldier with a few scripted lines.

                I think a lot of the folks on Lemmygrad consume a lot of Russian state media and media that draws from Russian state media. Lancaster is regularly featured on Russian state media, so it makes sense that they would be passing around his content.

        • @TheAnonymouseJoker@lemmy.ml
          link
          fedilink
          English
          311 months ago

          Hi NATO propagandist pingveno, how are Patrick Lancaster’s unfiltered vlogs of Ukraine, since the past 8 years, propaganda in any form or shape?