White is not the only high-level cyclist to die in Colorado in recent years. In 2020, Clif Pro Team racer Ben Sonntag was killed by a driver while on a training ride outside Durango. That driver was sentenced to serve jail time in late 2021. In 2021, U.S. masters champion Gwen Inglis was killed by a driver outside Lakewood, Colorado.
Ok, let’s do this.
Yes. 100%.
Correct.
No. It IS super dangerous because cars are near.
No, it’s dangerous when cars are around, but the solution isn’t to not cycle.
Standing on a sidewalk is dangerous if there are cars around. Moving cars near anyone can make anything dangerous. The problem is cars (and trucks).
Now, if we can agree that cars are the critical variable that makes these situations dangerous (and not the activity itself), then we can move forward with a solution.
If I were to draw a parallel here, it would be guns and schools. Going to school isn’t dangerous, but someone with a gun in school seems to cause kids to die. A lot.
Shouldn’t the solution have something to do with removing guns from the equation, and not the school, or kids going to school? That’s how you can look at cycling (or walking, or using a wheelchair in public, or riding an e-scooter).
The way you’re describing cycling, it’s as if it’s some extreme sport that only crazy people do. That’s not reality. Kids as young as a few years old and people over 100 ride bikes for all sorts of normal, everyday reasons. They aren’t the problem.
“The way you’re describing cycling, it’s as if it’s some extreme sport that only crazy people do. That’s not reality. Kids as young as a few years old and people over 100 ride bikes for all sorts of normal, everyday reasons. They aren’t the problem. “
Kind of. You’re missing the point tho. Cycling in itself isn’t dangerous and I never said it was. Cycling on a road with cars driving by at 35+ mph is in my opinion VERY extreme and crazy. You’d have to be crazy to put your life in that kind of danger.
I agree that cars are the problem and that we do most definitely need a solution.
The solution tho is NOT to be stubborn and continue cycling on dangerous roads. You’re just doubling down on your position.
Feel free to lobby the government. Feel free to seek infrastructure changes to make cycling safer. But at the end of the day it’s your choice on whether or not you want to take risks. If you go as far as taking the enormous risk of biking on busy roads then it’s you who has to live with the consequences if something bad happens.
Walking down the highway is ridiculously unsafe. It’s one thing if you find yourself in a desperate situation one day and you’re forced to do it. It’s a completely different situation tho if you’re deciding to do it for exercise. The solution is to find a better method of exercise and to not go walking down the highway.
I really don’t know what else to say. If you can’t see the danger behind walking or cycling along a busy road with cars driving by at fatal speeds then I guess we just don’t look at life the same way.
Your opinion isn’t grounded in fact, though. It’s MORE dangerous to be in a city around cars going much slower than 35mph than a cyclist riding on rural roads where cars go faster than 35mph. Even parking lots, where cars are going super slow, pedestrians are hit because drivers suck.
And it’s even still MORE dangerous to be a driver or passenger in a car, but that doesn’t mean cyclists and pedestrians should continue to be victimized.
Where do you propose people cycle or walk? If not on empty rural roads, and not in suburban areas, and certainly not in the city. Then where?
Yes, there are a LOT of people who are doing this. However, nothing can truly be safe with cars being anywhere near cyclists and pedestrians.
If cycling is a lower risk activity than driving, why not take that option if safety is a concern? Seems extreme to drive when saver options are available.
Again, even NON-BUSY roads carry a risk whenever any car is nearby. Drivers have been known to plow their vehicles through storefronts, putting people INSIDE OF A STORE at risk. Does the responsibility rest with the patrons of that store to have to worry about shopping in a place that’s close to a parking lot for cars?? Seems like more victim blaming.
I’m really curious to know how you get around, or if you get around, to run errands or commute. I’m assuming you don’t drive, since that’s the most dangerous form of transportation, but then it seems like you also don’t walk or ride a bike. What else is left?
Never in a million years will you convince me that riding your bike along a busy road with no shoulder is safer then me driving down the same stretch of road in a vehicle.
If you want to exercise there are safer ways to do it. If you’re too dumb to see how dangerous it is then that’s on you.
I don’t know if there are stats comparing the same specific road using different modes of transportation, but overall, driving has a higher death rate per capita than cycling. Even when the roads aren’t busy!
Even the CDC states that "Age-adjusted motor vehicle traffic death rates were highest for motor vehicle occupants and lowest for pedal cyclists for the entire period (1999 to 2019) (SOURCE)
You don’t need to be convinced, facts don’t care about what you or I think.
What about commuting? Running errands? Visiting a friend the next block over? If driving is demonstrably more dangerous, and only stupid people walk or cycle, what would you do in those cases? Just stay home?
You’re grasping at straws.
Per capita death includes all scenarios. We’re not talking about all scenarios. We’re not talking about whether cars are safer then bikes.
Riding a bike is safer than driving a vehicle. NO SHIT.
We’re specifically talking about riding your bike down a busy road with cars.
You do know there are other places to ride your bike where there aren’t massive death machines driving by right?
God damn are you really this dense?
Nobody is riding bikes on freeways, if that’s what you’re implying. What do you consider “too busy”? 1 car per hour? 100? 1000?
Rural roads, that is, farm roads with maybe a few cars an hour, like the roads that MANY cyclists use because they aren’t busy, can still kill cyclists because drivers are idiots.
What about residential neighbourhoods where kids live and play (and where cars still end up killing people)? Still too busy for bikes?
You’ve been blaming victims since your first comment, defending cars and relegating cycling to “extreme and crazy”. Yet you haven’t offered any solutions at all to what pedestrian and cyclists should do to perform their normal, daily tasks.
I’m COMPLETELY open to solutions, but it sounds like you simply don’t want cyclists on the road… any of them. And that’s not a solution to anything except making all areas in every community less safe to be in.
“Rural roads, that is, farm roads with maybe a few cars an hour, like the roads that MANY cyclists use because they aren’t busy, can still kill cyclists because drivers are idiots.”
Exactly! If you don’t want to die from getting hit by a car THEN STAY OFF THE ROAD. Literally cycle anywhere else it isn’t that hard. I don’t have sympathy for people who refuse to understand this.
I also have zero empathy for people that die in sky diving incidents. I have zero sympathy for people who do stupid shit and die from doing stupid shit.
So, help me to understand.
Someone walks out of their home with a bike. Now what? Where do they ride if they already know the destination?
Ironically, you consider anything except driving to be “stupid shit”, even though driving is more likely to get someone killed.
And we won’t even get into the number of lives SAVED because of the health benefits that go along with cycling, or the health detriments that go along with driving – even if you aren’t the driver!
Dude. People get killed cycling on cycle paths too. Most accidents happen in cities, at intersections, not on calm rural roads. It is not that dangerous.
You are promoting to not ride a bike at all really, i think a bicycling community is a strange place to do that.