• Hadeny
    5•11 months ago

    @jordanlund @TurblesCelbor the us vs them mentality does not help, I’m bettin there are a lot of people livin on the street that love this place as much as you. I hope the strategies you mentioned are framed from the perspective of addiction being a health epidemic

      • PiecemakersEnglish
        3•11 months ago

        The thing is? You’ve told us who you are, time and time again. We get it. Now, shut the fuck up and keep your little man fears to yourself, please. The adults are actually trying to do something worthwhile.

        • Jordan LundOPEnglish
          1•11 months ago

          The ones who passed 110? Gee, and that’s going OH so well… They aren’t adults, they are children in adult bodies going “But, but, I wanna get high!”

      • @thisisawayoflife@lemmy.world
        2•11 months ago

        Drug culture is pervasive here. Just take a look at how many bars and liquor stores there are. We like our drugs and we like easy access to them. No different for alcohol, meth, cannabis or opioids. Some, like alcohol, meth and fentanyl are just more destructive than others.

        • Jordan LundOPEnglish
          1•11 months ago

          Incredibly more destructive, but I wouldn’t say Oregon has more of an alcohol problem than other states, in fact, the way the OLCC operates, it’s probably the opposite.

          According to here, there are only 280 liquor stores in Oregon:

          https://www.oregon.gov/olcc/liquorstores/Pages/distilled-spirits-sales.aspx

          With a population of 4.2 million, that’s 1 store for every 15,000 or so people.

          Which is nothing compared to a state like Illinois which has 1,326 on a population of 12 million, or approximately 1 store for every 9,710 people.

          https://thecapitolist.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/04/Liquor-Stores-in-Non-Quota-Non-Control-States.pdf

          I had a job, oh, 25 years ago or so now, where I commuted back and forth between Portland and Chicago.

          Chicago was strange, even in the suburbs, because it was super hard to find a grocery store, but there were liquor stores on every corner. I had to go way out to East Jesus to find a Super Walmart or a Winco.

          I still remember my favorite name: “Binnie’s Beverage Depot” - So fancy!

          Wow, they’re still a thing - https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Binny’s_Beverage_Depot

          • @thisisawayoflife@lemmy.world
            2•11 months ago

            You did the math for liquor stores (without really quantifying density, given there are dry countries and large swaths of empty land), but what about bars, wineries and distilleries? What are we up to for deaths related to alcohol (addiction and DUI killings) every year, have we exceeded 150,000 yet? It was just under 100k a few years ago, but covid might have changed it. Probably what meth/fentanyl/opioids do combined.

            Some quick numbers from the NIH, 93k is the number from all non-alcohol related overdose deaths in 2020, versus just over 140,000 alcohol related deaths.

            I’m curious why folks seem to harp on some drugs, but not others?

            • Jordan LundOPEnglish
              1•11 months ago

              If I were to guess, it’s because the drunks aren’t sleeping in tents, stealing everything that isn’t nailed down, and shitting on sidewalks… but that’s just a guess.

              • @thisisawayoflife@lemmy.world
                2•11 months ago

                … and I’ve got news for you: you’re wrong. Conservative estimates suggest that at least 1/4 of the homeless in the US feel pretty to addiction through alcohol. Since meth is fairly available and much less expensive than a fifth or half gallon of booze, it’s also available to help you forget how cold it is sleeping on the street. If you’ve spent any time in Portland, you’d remember just how bad it was when the city would open the drunk tank and dump the homeless alcoholics back out onto the street - pissing and shitting themselves on the bus, Max or in the first of a business. This was commonplace in the mid 00s, I can’t imagine it’s any different now.

                Drugs are drugs are drugs. If we’re going to restrict, we need to restrict them all appropriately. We already know that the drug war on alcohol AND narcotics was a massive failure (saying nothing about how it’s turned virtually every country south of our border into narco states), so what’s next? Trafficking is still a felony in Oregon, why don’t cops enforce the law?

                • Jordan LundOPEnglish
                  1•11 months ago

                  “Conservative estimates suggest that at least 1/4 of the homeless in the US feel pretty to addiction through alcohol.”

                  Or to invert your quote, 3/4 of the homeless in the US AREN’T addicted to alcohol… which is right in line with what I’m saying… the drunks aren’t the problem.

                  But in the end, I’m not talking about the US in general, the US in general doesn’t have an equivalent of Measure 110 and if we’re lucky it never will.

                  • @thisisawayoflife@lemmy.world
                    2•11 months ago

                    If other drugs have the same percentage of impact, or less (which is the case statistically, than alcohol, then what is the problem of the drinks aren’t the problem? If fentanyl users make up only 5% of the homeless, why go after them rather than the alcoholics?