Last week, this strange mention appeared on my Mastodon feed. After a bit of clicking around, I figured out what had happened. A user on the Kbin social network had linked to my Mastodon profile. Thanks to the magic of the ActivityPub protocol, it filtered into my mentions - even though I've never even heard [...]
I’ve been on the Fediverse since 2016, and I still get a little mixed up by how things work.
I don’t really understand the whole “choose who you federate with”, federation is a server-to-server thing as far as I am aware, and banning whole servers results in some of your users becoming unable to reach all of theirs, incurring a penalty on both sides. I don’t think blocking users based on whoever hosts their account ever makes sense in the general case (it’s a weak argument to prove someone “guilty by association”), and is incredibly unfair (the statement being made is that all users on that instance, without exception, should suffer the consequences of the actions of a few).
Unfortunately there isn’t a finer grained tool. You can ban users, but if the instance they’re from has open sign ups the banned user can just create a new account and return to harassing people on the server. This is the reason that Beehaw defederated with the two earlier this week. They tried everything they could before then, but the tools just aren’t there yet to not punish the whole instance if the instance’s admin isn’t willing to meet part way.
Think about it this way. In real life, you choose who you associate with for many reasons. Do the same in the Fediverse. If your instance gets blocked look at your fellow users as to why, and to the admin policies of your instance administrators. The biggest issue is when Federation ends because that is disruptive. Keep in mind instances mostly never federate with all other nodes. They cannot. Some are illegal, others just full of bad actors and trolls.
I agree that it should be a last resort and it usually is. But when it happens look to your instance not the one de-federating.
Think about it this way. In real life, you choose who you associate with for many reasons. Do the same in the Fediverse.
Hard disagree:
the fediverse is inherently pseudonymous, you can’t tell for sure who your peers actually are (and that’s a good thing)
Even if you could, it’s not practical to background check every single individual on your instance
Even if you could, you might find some people with diverging opinions without knowing for sure if that is sufficient ground for your whole instance to be banned by others (and whom)
Even if not, you can’t predict future behaviour of people on your instance
Even if you could, it doesn’t matter because ultimately only your own doing (and not that of others) should determine who gets to interact with you
I don’t really understand the whole “choose who you federate with”, federation is a server-to-server thing as far as I am aware, and banning whole servers results in some of your users becoming unable to reach all of theirs, incurring a penalty on both sides. I don’t think blocking users based on whoever hosts their account ever makes sense in the general case (it’s a weak argument to prove someone “guilty by association”), and is incredibly unfair (the statement being made is that all users on that instance, without exception, should suffer the consequences of the actions of a few).
Unfortunately there isn’t a finer grained tool. You can ban users, but if the instance they’re from has open sign ups the banned user can just create a new account and return to harassing people on the server. This is the reason that Beehaw defederated with the two earlier this week. They tried everything they could before then, but the tools just aren’t there yet to not punish the whole instance if the instance’s admin isn’t willing to meet part way.
Yup, that’s dramatic. The fediverse still has a long way to go.
Think about it this way. In real life, you choose who you associate with for many reasons. Do the same in the Fediverse. If your instance gets blocked look at your fellow users as to why, and to the admin policies of your instance administrators. The biggest issue is when Federation ends because that is disruptive. Keep in mind instances mostly never federate with all other nodes. They cannot. Some are illegal, others just full of bad actors and trolls.
I agree that it should be a last resort and it usually is. But when it happens look to your instance not the one de-federating.
Hard disagree:
the fediverse is inherently pseudonymous, you can’t tell for sure who your peers actually are (and that’s a good thing)
Even if you could, it’s not practical to background check every single individual on your instance
Even if you could, you might find some people with diverging opinions without knowing for sure if that is sufficient ground for your whole instance to be banned by others (and whom)
Even if not, you can’t predict future behaviour of people on your instance
Even if you could, it doesn’t matter because ultimately only your own doing (and not that of others) should determine who gets to interact with you