Jill Stein announced a surprise presidential bid Thursday, seeking the Green Party’s 2024 nomination. Stein, a physician who ran against Hillary Clinton and Donald Trump in 2016 as the Green Party&…
Democrats have done nothing to earn our votes, they are not entitled to them. Democrats have enabled every one of your bullet points. ‘Splitting the vote’ is liberal myth.
Yeah because why let facts get in the way of your alternative reality, tankie. I’m a very lefty guy and not a fan of the Dems. But splitting votes is real and a real strategy. Say something when she doesn’t focus only on battleground states and her funding is all grass roots.
There is a fucking chasm wider than the grand canyon between being left on the political spectrum and being a stalin apologist. And pretending that third parties in the US elections format don’t act as spoilers and that is a liberal myth is either (a) just being really fucking stupid or (b) some tankie bullshit made by a person living in lala land.
See, I’m complex enough to acknowledge that the democrats kind of suck overall, having multiple parties would be better, but also accepting that given how the current system functions things can absolutely be worse if Trump wins again. Let us not forget that last time Stein implicitly supported Trump saying she like he won’t be able to get anything done but Hillary is efficient and will likely make things worse. Stein is fully capable of pulling just enough votes that Trump could win. And last time that ended Roe v Wade. This time, say buh bye to assistance for Ukraine. He wanted to fuck up NATO before. I’m sure that’d be real high priority now.
The perfect is the enemy of the good. This is not how I’d like the world to be. But there is no magic wand and you can’t just pretend things are totally different and think that has an effect.
Can I ask, do you consider yourself a Social Democrat? Do you want to reform capitalism? Or, do you consider yourself a socialist? Do you want to supplant capitalism?
Democrats have done nothing to earn our votes, they are not entitled to them
Jill Stein and the Green Party have achieved literally nothing in their 22 years of existence.
They haven’t elected anyone significant at any level of government, haven’t authored any significant legislation, and have done the bare minimum to shift political discourse. They also have to earn our votes, and so far they have done very little to earn mine.
Even discounting the obvious statistical reality of the spoiler effect, is Jill Stein really the best candidate the Green Party has to offer? How on Earth can a party with so little to lose be so obviously out of fresh ideas already?
Say what you will about the libertarian ideology, but at least I can give the Libertarian Party credit for putting a couple asses in seats at various levels of government. The Green Party, in comparison, has had no such success, and the fact that they’re going back to Jill Stein (a weak candidate who’s buddies with Putin and didn’t perform well) shows that they have very little intention of improving.
‘Splitting the vote’ is liberal myth.
I’m sorry but you are absolutely delusional if you really believe this.
Whether you like it or not, vote splitting and the spoiler effect are well-documented statistical realities based on the flaws of our current first-past-the-post voting systems. This is 100% a math problem, and it’s one that’s been written about a lot by many different people.
If that bothers you (and it should) then I encourage you to read up on alternative, more democratic voting systems like Ranked-Choice (aka Instant Runoff) and STAR voting systems, which are generally more fair and far less susceptible to problems like spoiling and wasted votes.
You mean like the ones that the DNC is suing to keep off the 2024 ballots? Democrats have this crazy idea that even with rank choice voting we would check off any of your shitty candidates. This is not about compromise, rank choice voting is based on compromise. Trying to work within the systems that created the situation we are in, will never fix the situations that we are in. There is no reforming the party, there is no pushing them left after the election, there is no lesser evil. The entire system needs to be upended and then changed
Don’t believe history, modern political theory, basic math, or your eyes, instead believe me! My area just managed to out a fascist through splitting the vote so it’s very actionable.
this and the fact biden was so un-apologetically banking on homophobic, sexist and classicist issues until well after it became politically convenient to change is exactly why i stopped voting democrat and i love that i’ve been able to convince other who i have a relationship with to stop as well.
i think she’s thinking “now’s a good time for a green president” or maybe “now is a good time for an antiwar president” or “now is a good time for a woman president”. but what do i know? i’m just gonna vote for her.
She’s literally sitting at the same table as Vladimir Putin. You think that have open seating at these events? Fucking Gorbachev was at that dinner and wasn’t even at that table. And yes, this all took place after Putin invaded Ukraine in 2014.
If you’re gonna advocate for Stein you’re going to have to come up with something a little bit more convincing.
Are you fucking stupid or just full on tankie? What she said is the equivalent to when someone starts a statement with “I’m not racist but…”
She says it was a mild response? A response to what? What forced Russia to invade? Did Ukraine start pointing nukes at Russia? Fuck no. That was Russian apologist propaganda.
I mean you apparently can’t read one full tweet from a Russian asset, so why don’t we just hold off on that educated claim. Wouldn’t want you to get in trouble for false advertising.
Oh. Oh. Thanks for clearing that up. The west made Russia invade Ukraine. They had to do it. Because of the west. Fucking idiot. Do you realize how stupid you sound?
I mean, in the primaries, I’ll vote for whomever I personally like. But when Biden inevitably wins the nomination, I’ll be voting for him, because it’s either him or fascism. That’s not a hard choice to make.
fascism is a reactionary ideology the arose in response to leftist ideology like libertarian socialism or communism. a fascist society is strictly stratified and forces every institution to serve the interests of the state. liberal democracies are breeding grounds for fascism. look at the war on drugs or the cias war on communism. then look at every opportunity Biden had to endorse them or hinder them over the last 50 years.
Fascism is a far-right, authoritarian, ultranationalist political ideology and movement, characterized by a dictatorial leader, centralized autocracy, militarism, forcible suppression of opposition, belief in a natural social hierarchy, subordination of individual interests for the perceived good of the nation or race, and strong regimentation of society and the economy.
Being reactionary is a facet of Conservatism, and being on the political right itself, can have considerable overlap with fascism, but fascism itself need not be reactionary.
But Biden supporting the war on drugs, for example, doesn’t make him a fascist. It makes him a supporter of a partial police state, sure, but that’s still not the same thing. Additionally, he’s made considerable effort to promote democracy, something a fascist wouldn’t do. And if he was a fascist, he would be a darling of the extreme right politicians and media, the “Democrat they always wished for.” Instead, they are doing everything they can to invent evidence to impeach him.
Biden is a self-avowed Zionist, and part of old-guard-Democrats who support(ed) some awful policies. But there is no way you can honestly construe him as being cut from the same cloth as Hitler or Trump.
He most definitely has. Practically every major national address, he’s promoted going out and voting. He literally made an executive order to promote access to voting. Encouraging voting for everyone equally is not the hallmark of a fascist. Ensuring only your own people get to vote is (see Republican efforts to suppress voters, Trump and crew’s efforts to overturn the election, etc.)
I’m not sure where you’ve been, but Biden is far from being a fascist. You don’t have to like him, but calling him a fascist is simply untrue.
Let’s see:
And here’s Jill, like, “Mmm, yeah. Now’s a good time to try to split the vote.”
Democrats have done nothing to earn our votes, they are not entitled to them. Democrats have enabled every one of your bullet points. ‘Splitting the vote’ is liberal myth.
Yeah because why let facts get in the way of your alternative reality, tankie. I’m a very lefty guy and not a fan of the Dems. But splitting votes is real and a real strategy. Say something when she doesn’t focus only on battleground states and her funding is all grass roots.
If you use the word “tankie” unironically, you are not a leftist. Vaush would be proud.
There is a fucking chasm wider than the grand canyon between being left on the political spectrum and being a stalin apologist. And pretending that third parties in the US elections format don’t act as spoilers and that is a liberal myth is either (a) just being really fucking stupid or (b) some tankie bullshit made by a person living in lala land.
See, I’m complex enough to acknowledge that the democrats kind of suck overall, having multiple parties would be better, but also accepting that given how the current system functions things can absolutely be worse if Trump wins again. Let us not forget that last time Stein implicitly supported Trump saying she like he won’t be able to get anything done but Hillary is efficient and will likely make things worse. Stein is fully capable of pulling just enough votes that Trump could win. And last time that ended Roe v Wade. This time, say buh bye to assistance for Ukraine. He wanted to fuck up NATO before. I’m sure that’d be real high priority now.
The perfect is the enemy of the good. This is not how I’d like the world to be. But there is no magic wand and you can’t just pretend things are totally different and think that has an effect.
Can I ask, do you consider yourself a Social Democrat? Do you want to reform capitalism? Or, do you consider yourself a socialist? Do you want to supplant capitalism?
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Jill Stein and the Green Party have achieved literally nothing in their 22 years of existence.
They haven’t elected anyone significant at any level of government, haven’t authored any significant legislation, and have done the bare minimum to shift political discourse. They also have to earn our votes, and so far they have done very little to earn mine.
Even discounting the obvious statistical reality of the spoiler effect, is Jill Stein really the best candidate the Green Party has to offer? How on Earth can a party with so little to lose be so obviously out of fresh ideas already?
Say what you will about the libertarian ideology, but at least I can give the Libertarian Party credit for putting a couple asses in seats at various levels of government. The Green Party, in comparison, has had no such success, and the fact that they’re going back to Jill Stein (a weak candidate who’s buddies with Putin and didn’t perform well) shows that they have very little intention of improving.
I’m sorry but you are absolutely delusional if you really believe this.
Whether you like it or not, vote splitting and the spoiler effect are well-documented statistical realities based on the flaws of our current first-past-the-post voting systems. This is 100% a math problem, and it’s one that’s been written about a lot by many different people.
If that bothers you (and it should) then I encourage you to read up on alternative, more democratic voting systems like Ranked-Choice (aka Instant Runoff) and STAR voting systems, which are generally more fair and far less susceptible to problems like spoiling and wasted votes.
You mean like the ones that the DNC is suing to keep off the 2024 ballots? Democrats have this crazy idea that even with rank choice voting we would check off any of your shitty candidates. This is not about compromise, rank choice voting is based on compromise. Trying to work within the systems that created the situation we are in, will never fix the situations that we are in. There is no reforming the party, there is no pushing them left after the election, there is no lesser evil. The entire system needs to be upended and then changed
Don’t believe history, modern political theory, basic math, or your eyes, instead believe me! My area just managed to out a fascist through splitting the vote so it’s very actionable.
Earn my vote
I don’t think you were going to vote either way if your head is in the ground like that.
Avoid lying on the internet for a few years and they might.
thank you
this and the fact biden was so un-apologetically banking on homophobic, sexist and classicist issues until well after it became politically convenient to change is exactly why i stopped voting democrat and i love that i’ve been able to convince other who i have a relationship with to stop as well.
thanks for saying
Maybe you should learn to string a sentence together before you try to “convince other” of anything.
“thanks for saying”!
Ah, yes. Because as we all know, taking away from Democrats to vote for a third party will also diminish the Republican voting bloc. Oh wait…
Your ability to choose is an illusion.
i think she’s thinking “now’s a good time for a green president” or maybe “now is a good time for an antiwar president” or “now is a good time for a woman president”. but what do i know? i’m just gonna vote for her.
Then maybe pick someone who doesn’t support Russia’s war of imperial conquest against Ukraine.
jill stein doesn’t support any war.
I mean, her tweet on it is as close as you can get to supporting it without saying you support it.
https://x.com/DrJillStein/status/1629226431006875651?s=20
she called it an illegal invasion.
Here’s a picture of Jill Stein sitting as the guest of honor with Vladimir Putin and disgraced US General Michael Flynn in 2015, one year after the Russian invasion and annexation of Crimea (Ukraine).
You were saying?
she’s not the guest of honor. she’s just a RT contributor who got invited and paid her own way. this isn’t the OWN that Rachel maddow thinks it is.
She’s literally sitting at the same table as Vladimir Putin. You think that have open seating at these events? Fucking Gorbachev was at that dinner and wasn’t even at that table. And yes, this all took place after Putin invaded Ukraine in 2014.
If you’re gonna advocate for Stein you’re going to have to come up with something a little bit more convincing.
Are you fucking stupid or just full on tankie? What she said is the equivalent to when someone starts a statement with “I’m not racist but…”
She says it was a mild response? A response to what? What forced Russia to invade? Did Ukraine start pointing nukes at Russia? Fuck no. That was Russian apologist propaganda.
false dichotomy: I’m an educated anti fascist.
I mean you apparently can’t read one full tweet from a Russian asset, so why don’t we just hold off on that educated claim. Wouldn’t want you to get in trouble for false advertising.
you’re robbing it of context. she’s talking about Western foreign policy.
Oh. Oh. Thanks for clearing that up. The west made Russia invade Ukraine. They had to do it. Because of the west. Fucking idiot. Do you realize how stupid you sound?
Her: “Yeah, weed is illegal, but everyone does it, it should be legal, it has great health benefits, I take it daily.”
You: “She’s against weed. She said weed is illegal.”
she didn’t say it should be legal.
I mean, in the primaries, I’ll vote for whomever I personally like. But when Biden inevitably wins the nomination, I’ll be voting for him, because it’s either him or fascism. That’s not a hard choice to make.
since he is a fascist it’s no choice at all.
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it sure does. hey, do you think Biden should march into Congress and take the fasces off the wall, or just drape an American flag over them?
How is Biden a fascist? What do you think that word means?
fascism is a reactionary ideology the arose in response to leftist ideology like libertarian socialism or communism. a fascist society is strictly stratified and forces every institution to serve the interests of the state. liberal democracies are breeding grounds for fascism. look at the war on drugs or the cias war on communism. then look at every opportunity Biden had to endorse them or hinder them over the last 50 years.
That’s not what fascism is (or at least, it’s too broad of a definition). I think you’re responding in good faith, so:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fascism
Being reactionary is a facet of Conservatism, and being on the political right itself, can have considerable overlap with fascism, but fascism itself need not be reactionary.
But Biden supporting the war on drugs, for example, doesn’t make him a fascist. It makes him a supporter of a partial police state, sure, but that’s still not the same thing. Additionally, he’s made considerable effort to promote democracy, something a fascist wouldn’t do. And if he was a fascist, he would be a darling of the extreme right politicians and media, the “Democrat they always wished for.” Instead, they are doing everything they can to invent evidence to impeach him.
Biden is a self-avowed Zionist, and part of old-guard-Democrats who support(ed) some awful policies. But there is no way you can honestly construe him as being cut from the same cloth as Hitler or Trump.
I don’t see him as Hitler or trump. I see him as mussolini.
he never made any effort to promote democracy.
He most definitely has. Practically every major national address, he’s promoted going out and voting. He literally made an executive order to promote access to voting. Encouraging voting for everyone equally is not the hallmark of a fascist. Ensuring only your own people get to vote is (see Republican efforts to suppress voters, Trump and crew’s efforts to overturn the election, etc.)
I’m not sure where you’ve been, but Biden is far from being a fascist. You don’t have to like him, but calling him a fascist is simply untrue.