- cross-posted to:
- politics@lemmy.org
- news@lemmy.world
- cross-posted to:
- politics@lemmy.org
- news@lemmy.world
Many of Trump’s proposals for his second term are surprisingly extreme, draconian, and weird, even for him. Here’s a running list of his most unhinged plans.
Nope, I have answered the question multiple times. I am now taking care of my mental health because you are arguing in bad faith. For the benefit of the community though, here we go:
So when I asked
The answer is “yes”, apparently. Does the text list every office of government covered in Section 3? I’ll save you the answer: no it does not. If it did, that would be impressive, because most of them didn’t exist at the time, for example any ranking position of the Marine Corps. The Framers knew they couldn’t name every office that might ever be created, so they didn’t try. They listed some examples, and the criteria for triggering the disqualification.
Did you know this exact question came up at the time? I couldn’t find the source at the time but I didn’t think it was important because, you know, the text covers it with the “oathbreaker” requirement as has already been discussed. But, here it is: https://crsreports.congress.gov/product/pdf/lsb/lsb10569
Specifically:
I’ll highlight that last bit again:
That is from this paper: https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=3748639
Which you can view in the browser. Do try to read these ones, they do prove that I have answered your question already and you are without question wrong about Section 3 not covering the Office of the President. You can press “ctrl + f” on a Windows keyboard or “command + f” on a Mac, if you’re having trouble reading all those words and just want to skip to the relevant bits instead of arguing with me that your question has not been answered.
It’s amazing because I’ve never made this argument. I’ve asked why you think they didn’t specify the POTUS, and that by not doing so the interpretation that the position was not included is reasonable.
I appreciate the actual attempt to answer my question now, and I will read that piece. Thanks. That seems pretty damning to the ruling by the judge, and I wonder why it wasn’t brought up. I assume if this is appealed to the SCOTUS, it will be.
I’m not sure why you had to read the same thing as I have been saying all along from a dude who lived two hundred years ago, but okay I guess - it says a lot about your reading comprehension, and I’m gonna stand by that since you are continuing to insist that your question wasn’t answered until just now when it very clearly was. In addition you’ve never once said why the “or any office” text from the actual Amendment didn’t answer that question for you from the get-go, and I would like an explanation for that because it makes no sense to me, at all.
Fine. You are without question wrong about *there being any question as to whether Section 3 covers the Office of the President, or any other Office not explicitly listed in the text, because of that damning “or any office” text you have been so loathe to acknowledge.
I have been thinking about this myself, since I learned exactly what it means that the judge “found as a basis of fact” that the Big Orange engaged in an insurrection. That is being hailed as huge and I can see why. Maybe it’s a tactic, and admittedly the Amendment doesn’t say he must be struck from the ballot. It just says he’s disqualified from taking the office. Theoretically if that “finding as a basis of fact” ruling can stand the whole way, even if he wins he won’t be allowed to take the job and there’ll be a runoff election. That’d be a first.
It’s amazing that even after I say I’m convinced by your evidence (almost I still need to read the source), you still have to be a dick about it. Can’t help but be a douche, I guess.
That being said, you’re wrong and it’s your reading comprehension that sucks. After you misrepresented my position earlier, I explicitly laid out my position and it should have been clear from it that I just think her conclusion was reasonable. But in your small little mind you can’t think beyond the black and white, so the fact that I didn’t find it unreasonable must mean I think it’s unreasonable to include him in the list. You’re seeing yourself in me.
And FTR, the part you quote still does not answer my question, but I’m hoping the answer is in the context of what you quoted. so, again, thank you for that.
I suspect, but could very easily be wrong, that to get on the ballot in most states you have to be eligible to be POTUS.
Incorrect, as proven by the fact that you showed me evidence that they intended to include the presidency and I said this “damning to the ruling by the judge.” But that would require reading comprehension, which a lack of you hilariously projected onto me. Although this was never true and just a straw man you’ve made up.
As I said, it is a conspicuous omission which is why I had a hard time finding fault with the ruling. But, again, this would have just required some reading comprehension.
I’ve asked it explicitly a number of times, yet you still can’t understand it. Amazing. I’ll try again.
Why did they list some high importance positions but not the POTUS? I’m not asking you how you think it still includes the POTUS. I’ve always thought it was a reasonable conclusion to think it does. Why list any offices at all, like senator and rep, if the catch all of “any office” gets them as well?
Their inclusion creates ambiguity which is why I originally found her conclusion to be reasonable. But if we have the framers of the amendment saying it applies to the POTUS, then there should be no ambiguity there any longer. This is just the first I’ve seen that. Pretty much every other argument has been they couldn’t fathom a POTUS would he the traitor (which is laughable).
They’re called “examples”.
No, it doesn’t. Because “or” and “any” and “office” all have their own meanings, as do all the other words you completely ignored to claim there’s any ambiguity. THAT is why I’m annoyed with you, because you have been obstinately declaring ambiguity and a lack of an answer when it’s been right there in your face, in written words, the whole time.
Again, their answer was the same as mine, so why was the text not clear enough for you? Remember, the framers themselves said it’s clear as day by simply pointing out what the text says. I want to know why you didn’t take that from what’s written. Not being a dick now, I actually want to understand what is ambiguous about “or any other office, civil or military”.
Lol you don’t honestly think this is the case do you? Why not give examples in every amendment? But this is certainly not how it’s worded. You’re just trying hand wave away this peculiarity. Why not just admit it’s curious and raises questions?
At no point was your position unclear; at no point did I not understand what you were arguing. The issue is that they decided to put in “examples” (lol) but not include the POTUS, and I thought that left the door open to interpret as not including the POTUS. One of them clarifying that it does still include the POTUS is very different than you simply claiming it does. The only reason this would be hard to understand is, well, if you lack reading comprehension or cant think outside of black and white.
No, the reason this is hard to understand is that the text is perfectly clear, and you STILL won’t say why “OR ANY OFFICE” might not clearly cover offices not explicitly listed. Because that is what those words mean and I think you should be concerned that you can’t answer that question. I would also encourage you to research the concept of “or”, and of incomplete lists, as they have been around for millennia and you really ought to get caught up.
Put another way: what I want to know is why you want to focus so hard on a sentence fragment being ambiguous, when the very next words of the sentence make the meaning perfectly clear (and make no mistake, the meaning is perfectly clear to anyone who can read English).
This is how this is going, from my point of view: “Why is the President not listed” “See ‘any office’ right after that” “But why are the other offices listed” “Because ‘any office’ covers all of them, even ones that didn’t exist back then” “But the President isn’t listed and that creates ambiguity” “No it doesn’t, because of the ‘any office’ text” “But it doesn’t list every office” “Right. See ‘any office’” “… But it’s ambiguous and you’re not answering my question”
Now you try.