Yeah totally, working and commuting to a job you can’t stand to have most of your income taken away by payments and loans. But at least you get to vacation to places that lie further away because you were able to save up more. Because long distance travelling will definitely fulfill every need and longing you have.
Now, back from the negative. To each their own. No one should have kids if they don’t want to. But a life without kids is also not just fun and cookies. In our society you are left with little time for yourself and your hobbies no matter whether you have kids or not. Most of us have no attachment to our jobs, we know they are bullshit jobs and salaries are compensating their lack of meaning. I can’t understand how people want to find fulfillment in their jobs, something to live for and to draw value for your life from. A minority does have important jobs that can give you a sense of meaning (I imagine nurses, social workers, teachers) but these are usually so underpaid and have such horrible working conditions that it circles back to how can you live for that. You’re replaceable. No one will thank you for your service down the line.
You can find joy in hobbies or travelling. But is this what makes your life meaningful? Does that glass of red wine in the evening and good food give your life purpose? On the other hand, do you even need a purpose? Maybe a hedonistic approach of taking just some simple pleasures from your existence is enough, but man I hope realisation won’t hit when you’re older that you have not tried anything of significance.
But all of that being said, this is not a reason to have kids. Kids are just a very straightforward way to add purpose, meaning, and fulfillment to your life. It is hard and exhausting and makes you angry and frustrated all the time, but this is also what makes life worth living. No one really wants to live wrapped in cotton candy. People who cannot or choose to not have kids can find fulfillment in other aspects of their life. But I’d argue that a sense of being a person close to other people, a social being with commitment and responsibility for someone else, is almost always necessary.
I wonder where the sentiment that free time in itself is worth so much comes from. And why is time spent with kids automatically unfree? Me time, self care, yes sure, but I would not put free time, as in time I can do something by myself, above time I spend with people I love. Is a weekend spent outside with your family on a playground with coffee in thermo cups somehow not free time? What would you want to do instead? If I end up with too much time on my hands that I don’t put in somewhere that makes sense, is it really better than putting it into raising children? You can put it into working for charity or into doing another round of cocktails at a bar. You can do something for your community, work on a master plan to overthrow the capitalist system, or you can do yet another round of meditative yoga. The question is what you will look back on later with no regrets. (You can also absolutely regret having had kids.)
Most of us will have shit jobs no matter what. You’re right that the stakes are higher with kids involved. Is this necessarily bad? At least you have some more reason to keep working and not try to improve the unimprovable.
And yes, your kids might eventually resent you. This sucks. But they don’t owe you and you don’t own them. You try your best, you fuck it up, you are overloaded, it’s never enough, you learn, you regret, you cherish, you love. If you’re lucky, you will have helped in the creation of a happy and independent adult, whilst having gained valuable experiences and created unique memories. That’s the best you can hope for. But don’t have kids if you expect anything. Don’t have kids for a reason.
I just want to emphasize that I am not advocating for having children. If you don’t want kids, don’t have them. Not everyone can have kids either. The question is what you make matter in your life. If you manage to find a purpose, meaning, fulfillment, connection, commitment, call it whatever you want, outside of a family - that’s amazing and absolutely something to strive for. What I dislike is the sentiment (conveyed in this meme) that more money and more free time automatically is somehow worth more or make for a better life. In themselves, these things are worth nothing. It is what you make of it. Free time can be a killer (ask lonely retirees), and money does not necessarily make you happier (if you don’t have financial worries). As with money, I also ask myself where people put their money. Is putting money into stuff, hobbies, travelling, really so much better than putting it towards people they love?
And putting your career first is - just in my opinion - a dangerous gamble, if this is what you decide is to give your life meaning.
There are shit parents and there are shit childfree people. There are fulfilled parents and fulfilled childfree (or childless) people. Whatever scratches your itches.
What I dislike is the sentiment (conveyed in this meme) that more money and more free time automatically is somehow worth more or make for a better life. In themselves, these things are worth nothing.
Only someone who has plenty of time and money could make such a silly statement. For most of us, these are precious resources.
This is so well said. I was a dumbass until my son was born. Then everything in life was meaningless and my son became my sole purpose in life. My job became meaningless. My friends became meaningless. Everything was focused on being the best father I can be. What was interesting is that when I started getting less of a fuck at work, I started getting promoted and getting paid more. I had more confidence during interviews because I didn’t give a fuck about them.
Anyways to each their own, but I want to thank you for replying.
Thanks man. It’s insane how having a kid can change your perspective or focus. Like, yesterday I’ve been watching a crying two year old trying to figure out how to put on socks for 15 minutes and it was legit a beautiful and intense experience. I didn’t expect I would ever say that about watching someone failing to put on socks. (Today it worked for the first time!)
And somehow not giving a fuck in other parts of life where you used to give a fuck is so crass. I’m one of those people who cannot make a phone call to make a dentist appointment. But if it’s about my kid? Hand me the phone. I also am too tired now to give a crap about tiptoeing around issues or keeping my mouth shut when something is legitimately wrong.
As for work, I doubt I’ll go back to what I’ve been doing before. I’ll gladly take a pay cut but if I’m giving my child away to go to work I’m not going to do this for some bullshit job with no meaning.
Yeah totally, working and commuting to a job you can’t stand to have most of your income taken away by payments and loans. But at least you get to vacation to places that lie further away because you were able to save up more. Because long distance travelling will definitely fulfill every need and longing you have.
Now, back from the negative. To each their own. No one should have kids if they don’t want to. But a life without kids is also not just fun and cookies. In our society you are left with little time for yourself and your hobbies no matter whether you have kids or not. Most of us have no attachment to our jobs, we know they are bullshit jobs and salaries are compensating their lack of meaning. I can’t understand how people want to find fulfillment in their jobs, something to live for and to draw value for your life from. A minority does have important jobs that can give you a sense of meaning (I imagine nurses, social workers, teachers) but these are usually so underpaid and have such horrible working conditions that it circles back to how can you live for that. You’re replaceable. No one will thank you for your service down the line.
You can find joy in hobbies or travelling. But is this what makes your life meaningful? Does that glass of red wine in the evening and good food give your life purpose? On the other hand, do you even need a purpose? Maybe a hedonistic approach of taking just some simple pleasures from your existence is enough, but man I hope realisation won’t hit when you’re older that you have not tried anything of significance.
But all of that being said, this is not a reason to have kids. Kids are just a very straightforward way to add purpose, meaning, and fulfillment to your life. It is hard and exhausting and makes you angry and frustrated all the time, but this is also what makes life worth living. No one really wants to live wrapped in cotton candy. People who cannot or choose to not have kids can find fulfillment in other aspects of their life. But I’d argue that a sense of being a person close to other people, a social being with commitment and responsibility for someone else, is almost always necessary.
I'm bored and can't find meaning in my life. I'm going to procreate and make it somebody else's problemWell, I don’t love how you phrased it, but I’ll take it just so I can ask: and what’s wrong with that?
Selfish act
All the bad things you mentioned are worse with kids.
In what way?
Let’s go line by line
Still have to do that with kids, except your expenses are higher and you have even less free time.
Again, with kids what little free time you might have is eaten up by them.
You’re more stuck in a job when you have kids. Family insurance, greater risk of jumping to a new job, less ability to change location.
Even worse when that sentiment is coming from your own children rather than your boss.
I wonder where the sentiment that free time in itself is worth so much comes from. And why is time spent with kids automatically unfree? Me time, self care, yes sure, but I would not put free time, as in time I can do something by myself, above time I spend with people I love. Is a weekend spent outside with your family on a playground with coffee in thermo cups somehow not free time? What would you want to do instead? If I end up with too much time on my hands that I don’t put in somewhere that makes sense, is it really better than putting it into raising children? You can put it into working for charity or into doing another round of cocktails at a bar. You can do something for your community, work on a master plan to overthrow the capitalist system, or you can do yet another round of meditative yoga. The question is what you will look back on later with no regrets. (You can also absolutely regret having had kids.)
Most of us will have shit jobs no matter what. You’re right that the stakes are higher with kids involved. Is this necessarily bad? At least you have some more reason to keep working and not try to improve the unimprovable.
And yes, your kids might eventually resent you. This sucks. But they don’t owe you and you don’t own them. You try your best, you fuck it up, you are overloaded, it’s never enough, you learn, you regret, you cherish, you love. If you’re lucky, you will have helped in the creation of a happy and independent adult, whilst having gained valuable experiences and created unique memories. That’s the best you can hope for. But don’t have kids if you expect anything. Don’t have kids for a reason.
I just want to emphasize that I am not advocating for having children. If you don’t want kids, don’t have them. Not everyone can have kids either. The question is what you make matter in your life. If you manage to find a purpose, meaning, fulfillment, connection, commitment, call it whatever you want, outside of a family - that’s amazing and absolutely something to strive for. What I dislike is the sentiment (conveyed in this meme) that more money and more free time automatically is somehow worth more or make for a better life. In themselves, these things are worth nothing. It is what you make of it. Free time can be a killer (ask lonely retirees), and money does not necessarily make you happier (if you don’t have financial worries). As with money, I also ask myself where people put their money. Is putting money into stuff, hobbies, travelling, really so much better than putting it towards people they love?
And putting your career first is - just in my opinion - a dangerous gamble, if this is what you decide is to give your life meaning.
There are shit parents and there are shit childfree people. There are fulfilled parents and fulfilled childfree (or childless) people. Whatever scratches your itches.
Only someone who has plenty of time and money could make such a silly statement. For most of us, these are precious resources.
This is so well said. I was a dumbass until my son was born. Then everything in life was meaningless and my son became my sole purpose in life. My job became meaningless. My friends became meaningless. Everything was focused on being the best father I can be. What was interesting is that when I started getting less of a fuck at work, I started getting promoted and getting paid more. I had more confidence during interviews because I didn’t give a fuck about them.
Anyways to each their own, but I want to thank you for replying.
This just seems sad to me personally
Thanks man. It’s insane how having a kid can change your perspective or focus. Like, yesterday I’ve been watching a crying two year old trying to figure out how to put on socks for 15 minutes and it was legit a beautiful and intense experience. I didn’t expect I would ever say that about watching someone failing to put on socks. (Today it worked for the first time!)
And somehow not giving a fuck in other parts of life where you used to give a fuck is so crass. I’m one of those people who cannot make a phone call to make a dentist appointment. But if it’s about my kid? Hand me the phone. I also am too tired now to give a crap about tiptoeing around issues or keeping my mouth shut when something is legitimately wrong.
As for work, I doubt I’ll go back to what I’ve been doing before. I’ll gladly take a pay cut but if I’m giving my child away to go to work I’m not going to do this for some bullshit job with no meaning.