Taiwan is a province of China. This is a well documented fact, and Taiwan’s legal standing is not in question. This is the position held by the UN as well as practically all the countries in the world. This is also the fundamental basis for having diplomatic relations between US and China per Potsdam Proclamation that was signed 77 years ago between China, the US & the UK. This position has never officially changed. You can also read about it on the US state department site:
The governments of Texas and Hawaii don’t pretend to control the entire United States.
The China/Taiwan thing is downright silly. They can pretend all day long and make all the claims they want, but at the end of the day it’s just make-believe. The PRC doesn’t control Taiwan, and Taiwan doesn’t control the PRC. The rest of the world will smile and nod and say whatever we have to in order to get what we want, in the same way you’d smile and nod until your crazy neighbor stops ranting and goes back in his house.
US has basically committing a genocide in Hawaii, having annexed it after WW2. Here are just some of the atrocities US is committing there. There is an independence movement there that very much deserves support from the world.
China/Taiwan thing is silly only because Taiwan independence is a complete joke given that it’s entirely reliant on mainland China economically. China is going along with the farce simply because they expect to end it in a peaceful way. In fact, that almost happened back in 2014 when KMT was about to officially repatriate. The deal was that Taiwan would be allowed to keep an autonomous government and have a representative on the mainland. US ran a color revolution in response that put the current DPP government in power. However, their popularity has recently plummeted and it’s very likely that KMT will get back into power in the elections next year. At that point the talks of resolving the independence issue peacefully will likely restart. KMT officials have already travelled to the mainland this year for talks.
And the Hawaii stuff has exactly what to do with China? Oh wait, it doesn’t. The US being “nice” isn’t even part of this discussion. And really, neither the PRC or ROC have any leg to stand on when it comes to accusations of atrocities.
As far as the rest, none of that matters. Does the PRC control Taiwain now? No, no it doesn’t. Has the PRC controlled Taiwan for all these decades it’s played this game of pretend? No, no, it hasn’t. Until the PRC has actual control over Taiwan, its claims of ownership are meaningless.
My point was that China should start actively supporting independence in Hawaii, start doing freedom of navigation drills around there, fund political parties in Hawaii that promote independence, and fly native Hawaiian politicians to China for training.
And you can keep doing whatever mental gymnastics you like, but the reality is that that Taiwan is internationally recognized as being a part of China, and if China decided that it wanted to end the farce by force it could do that any time it likes. That’s the real world that you should try engaging with.
If the people of Hawai’i had a completely different form of government and separate foreign relations and the public popularly supported independence, why would they not be allowed that? None of those are true though. Independence is not popular in Hawai’i. The Native population would like more autonomy and recognition which they should get but that is a fast cry from wanting independence.
Well, to be fair, they wouldn’t be allowed that. We had a bit of a war about that sort of thing, and the supreme court maintains that a state has no right to leave the union. But you’re exactly right that independence isn’t popular in Hawaii.
And that would make no sense at all, since the Hawaiian independence movement is so tiny as to be nonexistent. But again, that has nothing to do with this discussion.
You’re back to repeating yourself. I’m not the one doing mental gymnastics here. Riddle me this, Batman: if Taiwan is de facto part of the ROC, then why do we get our chips - the irreplaceable ones, not the 555 timer knockoffs - from Taiwan and not the mainland? Why aren’t semiconductors produced in the PRC common in the global supply chain? Why do US companies invest so much money in Taiwanese fabs? Why does only Taiwan and South Korea have the ability to make chips at a 5nm process or smaller?
In short, why can we live without the PRC’s fabs but not Taiwan’s? It’s because for all intents and purposes, they’re different countries. They just share a fantasy that they’re not, and we go along with it because it’s not worth the trouble. Until one of them quits dreaming and actually takes the other one over, they’re going to be two different countries.
I love how you argument is, well we actually slaughtered most of the indigenous population, so it’s not a problem anymore. Quintessentially American thing to say.
It states that Taiwan is part of the Republic of China. Chiang Kai-shek signed it, not Mao. You can’t just revise history the way you see fit. Communist states are pretty big on that admittedly.
It states that US has a one China policy and the government of China happens to be PRC as recognized by the UN and practically every nation on earth. If you still can’t understand this basic fact what else is there to tell you.
Are we looking at the same Potsdam Declaration from 1945? Nowhere does it mention a one China policy. It does reference the Cairo Declaration but that also did not talk about a one China policy. That one started that Japan needs to give back the territories it took from the Republic of China including Manchuria and Taiwan. I guess Manchuria should be under control of the Republic of China instead of the People’s Republic of China.
One China policy is an internal US policy, and acknowledgement that Taiwan is part of China. In terms of international law, the only thing that matters is the fact that UN recognizes Taiwan being part of China. You keep on doing your mental gymnastics though.
Taiwan is a province of China. This is a well documented fact, and Taiwan’s legal standing is not in question. This is the position held by the UN as well as practically all the countries in the world. This is also the fundamental basis for having diplomatic relations between US and China per Potsdam Proclamation that was signed 77 years ago between China, the US & the UK. This position has never officially changed. You can also read about it on the US state department site:
That seems pretty clear cut to me.
Dang, you had all that ready to go as soon as someone mentioned Taiwan?
When the same bullshit keeps coming up, it’s pretty easy to debunk it.
Sure, and that “policy” keeps China happy while we continue to treat Taiwan as its own country.
The US doesn’t care about China’s little turf war as long as we get to trade with both.
China really should start treating Texas and Hawaii as their own countries.
The governments of Texas and Hawaii don’t pretend to control the entire United States.
The China/Taiwan thing is downright silly. They can pretend all day long and make all the claims they want, but at the end of the day it’s just make-believe. The PRC doesn’t control Taiwan, and Taiwan doesn’t control the PRC. The rest of the world will smile and nod and say whatever we have to in order to get what we want, in the same way you’d smile and nod until your crazy neighbor stops ranting and goes back in his house.
US has basically committing a genocide in Hawaii, having annexed it after WW2. Here are just some of the atrocities US is committing there. There is an independence movement there that very much deserves support from the world.
China/Taiwan thing is silly only because Taiwan independence is a complete joke given that it’s entirely reliant on mainland China economically. China is going along with the farce simply because they expect to end it in a peaceful way. In fact, that almost happened back in 2014 when KMT was about to officially repatriate. The deal was that Taiwan would be allowed to keep an autonomous government and have a representative on the mainland. US ran a color revolution in response that put the current DPP government in power. However, their popularity has recently plummeted and it’s very likely that KMT will get back into power in the elections next year. At that point the talks of resolving the independence issue peacefully will likely restart. KMT officials have already travelled to the mainland this year for talks.
And the Hawaii stuff has exactly what to do with China? Oh wait, it doesn’t. The US being “nice” isn’t even part of this discussion. And really, neither the PRC or ROC have any leg to stand on when it comes to accusations of atrocities.
As far as the rest, none of that matters. Does the PRC control Taiwain now? No, no it doesn’t. Has the PRC controlled Taiwan for all these decades it’s played this game of pretend? No, no, it hasn’t. Until the PRC has actual control over Taiwan, its claims of ownership are meaningless.
My point was that China should start actively supporting independence in Hawaii, start doing freedom of navigation drills around there, fund political parties in Hawaii that promote independence, and fly native Hawaiian politicians to China for training.
And you can keep doing whatever mental gymnastics you like, but the reality is that that Taiwan is internationally recognized as being a part of China, and if China decided that it wanted to end the farce by force it could do that any time it likes. That’s the real world that you should try engaging with.
If the people of Hawai’i had a completely different form of government and separate foreign relations and the public popularly supported independence, why would they not be allowed that? None of those are true though. Independence is not popular in Hawai’i. The Native population would like more autonomy and recognition which they should get but that is a fast cry from wanting independence.
Well, to be fair, they wouldn’t be allowed that. We had a bit of a war about that sort of thing, and the supreme court maintains that a state has no right to leave the union. But you’re exactly right that independence isn’t popular in Hawaii.
And that would make no sense at all, since the Hawaiian independence movement is so tiny as to be nonexistent. But again, that has nothing to do with this discussion.
You’re back to repeating yourself. I’m not the one doing mental gymnastics here. Riddle me this, Batman: if Taiwan is de facto part of the ROC, then why do we get our chips - the irreplaceable ones, not the 555 timer knockoffs - from Taiwan and not the mainland? Why aren’t semiconductors produced in the PRC common in the global supply chain? Why do US companies invest so much money in Taiwanese fabs? Why does only Taiwan and South Korea have the ability to make chips at a 5nm process or smaller?
In short, why can we live without the PRC’s fabs but not Taiwan’s? It’s because for all intents and purposes, they’re different countries. They just share a fantasy that they’re not, and we go along with it because it’s not worth the trouble. Until one of them quits dreaming and actually takes the other one over, they’re going to be two different countries.
I love how you argument is, well we actually slaughtered most of the indigenous population, so it’s not a problem anymore. Quintessentially American thing to say.
Sure- and if they want to be they are free to be. And there in lies the difference doesn’t it?
Sorry. I should have said Republic of China.
People’s Republic of China to be exact.
No. That is the Republic of China which is who the Potsdam Declaration was signed with.
Postdam Declaration states that Taiwan is part of PRC, it’s not ambiguous about that in any way.
It states that Taiwan is part of the Republic of China. Chiang Kai-shek signed it, not Mao. You can’t just revise history the way you see fit. Communist states are pretty big on that admittedly.
Guess where the Republic of China is.
It states that US has a one China policy and the government of China happens to be PRC as recognized by the UN and practically every nation on earth. If you still can’t understand this basic fact what else is there to tell you.
Are we looking at the same Potsdam Declaration from 1945? Nowhere does it mention a one China policy. It does reference the Cairo Declaration but that also did not talk about a one China policy. That one started that Japan needs to give back the territories it took from the Republic of China including Manchuria and Taiwan. I guess Manchuria should be under control of the Republic of China instead of the People’s Republic of China.
One China policy is an internal US policy, and acknowledgement that Taiwan is part of China. In terms of international law, the only thing that matters is the fact that UN recognizes Taiwan being part of China. You keep on doing your mental gymnastics though.