US has basically committing a genocide in Hawaii, having annexed it after WW2. Here are just some of the atrocities US is committing there. There is an independence movement there that very much deserves support from the world.
China/Taiwan thing is silly only because Taiwan independence is a complete joke given that it’s entirely reliant on mainland China economically. China is going along with the farce simply because they expect to end it in a peaceful way. In fact, that almost happened back in 2014 when KMT was about to officially repatriate. The deal was that Taiwan would be allowed to keep an autonomous government and have a representative on the mainland. US ran a color revolution in response that put the current DPP government in power. However, their popularity has recently plummeted and it’s very likely that KMT will get back into power in the elections next year. At that point the talks of resolving the independence issue peacefully will likely restart. KMT officials have already travelled to the mainland this year for talks.
And the Hawaii stuff has exactly what to do with China? Oh wait, it doesn’t. The US being “nice” isn’t even part of this discussion. And really, neither the PRC or ROC have any leg to stand on when it comes to accusations of atrocities.
As far as the rest, none of that matters. Does the PRC control Taiwain now? No, no it doesn’t. Has the PRC controlled Taiwan for all these decades it’s played this game of pretend? No, no, it hasn’t. Until the PRC has actual control over Taiwan, its claims of ownership are meaningless.
My point was that China should start actively supporting independence in Hawaii, start doing freedom of navigation drills around there, fund political parties in Hawaii that promote independence, and fly native Hawaiian politicians to China for training.
And you can keep doing whatever mental gymnastics you like, but the reality is that that Taiwan is internationally recognized as being a part of China, and if China decided that it wanted to end the farce by force it could do that any time it likes. That’s the real world that you should try engaging with.
And that would make no sense at all, since the Hawaiian independence movement is so tiny as to be nonexistent. But again, that has nothing to do with this discussion.
You’re back to repeating yourself. I’m not the one doing mental gymnastics here. Riddle me this, Batman: if Taiwan is de facto part of the ROC, then why do we get our chips - the irreplaceable ones, not the 555 timer knockoffs - from Taiwan and not the mainland? Why aren’t semiconductors produced in the PRC common in the global supply chain? Why do US companies invest so much money in Taiwanese fabs? Why does only Taiwan and South Korea have the ability to make chips at a 5nm process or smaller?
In short, why can we live without the PRC’s fabs but not Taiwan’s? It’s because for all intents and purposes, they’re different countries. They just share a fantasy that they’re not, and we go along with it because it’s not worth the trouble. Until one of them quits dreaming and actually takes the other one over, they’re going to be two different countries.
I love how you argument is, well we actually slaughtered most of the indigenous population, so it’s not a problem anymore. Quintessentially American thing to say.
When did I ever claim that? When did I ever justify the actions of the US in Hawaii? You are making a lot of assumptions about my opinions and have nothing to back them up with.
I stated that it was irrelevant to the actual discussion about Taiwan. Remember the topic we were actually discussing? If you want to talk about Hawaiian history, then make a separate post about it.
You literally just said that Hawaiian independence movement is so tiny as to be nonexistent, why do you think that is, where did you think all the people go?
Meanwhile, it’s relevant to the discussion of Taiwan because US is the sole reason there is a problem in Taiwan. If you can’t understand how China funding and supporting and independence movement in Hawaii would be analogous to what US is doing in Taiwan, then what else is there to say to you.
The people didn’t “go” anywhere. They’re still there. Their descendants make up around 10% of the population. They’re US citizens and the majority of them aren’t part of any independence movement. Did some die during the period where the US overthrew their monarchy? Of course! It was an armed conflict, after all. Did we slaughter all or even a significant percentage of the natives? No, we didn’t.
We have slaughtered native populations elsewhere. You want to point fingers at the US, there’s plenty of places to point. But your Hawaiian argument reeks of ignorance.
And again, that has nothing in common with the PRC/ROC division.
You claim that the US is the only reason Taiwan doesn’t want to be part of the PRC. Is that what the PRC government tells its people? That the Taiwanese desperately want to dissolve their government and submit to the PRC but us evil Americans won’t let them? Why not ask some Taiwanese people about that?
You admit that there is a “problem in Taiwan,” but maintain the illusion that the PRC controls Taiwan? You can’t have it both ways. Either you control it, or you don’t.
There is nothing else you can say to me, because you ran out of arguments a while ago and keep trying to push some narrative about Hawaii. You haven’t answered any of the questions from my last comment. You haven’t given me any reasons why Taiwan is really part of the PRC in any practical sense, because there isn’t one.
Should really read that link I gave you up there from an actual native person in Hawaii.
The only thing that reeks of ignorance is claiming that US isn’t the only reason Taiwan issue exists. Where did the money for separatist movement come from exactly, who created the sunflower movement, and props up the DPP excatly?
US is the problem in Taiwan, after the civil war in China, US decided to prop up the side that lost and actually referred to Taiwan as an unsinkable carrier. That’s the problem in Taiwan.
There is nothing else I can say to you because it’s pretty clear that you’re either woefully uninformed on the subject you’re attempting to debate or just a shill for your empire.
If the people of Hawai’i had a completely different form of government and separate foreign relations and the public popularly supported independence, why would they not be allowed that? None of those are true though. Independence is not popular in Hawai’i. The Native population would like more autonomy and recognition which they should get but that is a fast cry from wanting independence.
Well, to be fair, they wouldn’t be allowed that. We had a bit of a war about that sort of thing, and the supreme court maintains that a state has no right to leave the union. But you’re exactly right that independence isn’t popular in Hawaii.
US has basically committing a genocide in Hawaii, having annexed it after WW2. Here are just some of the atrocities US is committing there. There is an independence movement there that very much deserves support from the world.
China/Taiwan thing is silly only because Taiwan independence is a complete joke given that it’s entirely reliant on mainland China economically. China is going along with the farce simply because they expect to end it in a peaceful way. In fact, that almost happened back in 2014 when KMT was about to officially repatriate. The deal was that Taiwan would be allowed to keep an autonomous government and have a representative on the mainland. US ran a color revolution in response that put the current DPP government in power. However, their popularity has recently plummeted and it’s very likely that KMT will get back into power in the elections next year. At that point the talks of resolving the independence issue peacefully will likely restart. KMT officials have already travelled to the mainland this year for talks.
And the Hawaii stuff has exactly what to do with China? Oh wait, it doesn’t. The US being “nice” isn’t even part of this discussion. And really, neither the PRC or ROC have any leg to stand on when it comes to accusations of atrocities.
As far as the rest, none of that matters. Does the PRC control Taiwain now? No, no it doesn’t. Has the PRC controlled Taiwan for all these decades it’s played this game of pretend? No, no, it hasn’t. Until the PRC has actual control over Taiwan, its claims of ownership are meaningless.
My point was that China should start actively supporting independence in Hawaii, start doing freedom of navigation drills around there, fund political parties in Hawaii that promote independence, and fly native Hawaiian politicians to China for training.
And you can keep doing whatever mental gymnastics you like, but the reality is that that Taiwan is internationally recognized as being a part of China, and if China decided that it wanted to end the farce by force it could do that any time it likes. That’s the real world that you should try engaging with.
And that would make no sense at all, since the Hawaiian independence movement is so tiny as to be nonexistent. But again, that has nothing to do with this discussion.
You’re back to repeating yourself. I’m not the one doing mental gymnastics here. Riddle me this, Batman: if Taiwan is de facto part of the ROC, then why do we get our chips - the irreplaceable ones, not the 555 timer knockoffs - from Taiwan and not the mainland? Why aren’t semiconductors produced in the PRC common in the global supply chain? Why do US companies invest so much money in Taiwanese fabs? Why does only Taiwan and South Korea have the ability to make chips at a 5nm process or smaller?
In short, why can we live without the PRC’s fabs but not Taiwan’s? It’s because for all intents and purposes, they’re different countries. They just share a fantasy that they’re not, and we go along with it because it’s not worth the trouble. Until one of them quits dreaming and actually takes the other one over, they’re going to be two different countries.
I love how you argument is, well we actually slaughtered most of the indigenous population, so it’s not a problem anymore. Quintessentially American thing to say.
When did I ever claim that? When did I ever justify the actions of the US in Hawaii? You are making a lot of assumptions about my opinions and have nothing to back them up with.
I stated that it was irrelevant to the actual discussion about Taiwan. Remember the topic we were actually discussing? If you want to talk about Hawaiian history, then make a separate post about it.
You literally just said that Hawaiian independence movement is so tiny as to be nonexistent, why do you think that is, where did you think all the people go?
Meanwhile, it’s relevant to the discussion of Taiwan because US is the sole reason there is a problem in Taiwan. If you can’t understand how China funding and supporting and independence movement in Hawaii would be analogous to what US is doing in Taiwan, then what else is there to say to you.
The people didn’t “go” anywhere. They’re still there. Their descendants make up around 10% of the population. They’re US citizens and the majority of them aren’t part of any independence movement. Did some die during the period where the US overthrew their monarchy? Of course! It was an armed conflict, after all. Did we slaughter all or even a significant percentage of the natives? No, we didn’t.
We have slaughtered native populations elsewhere. You want to point fingers at the US, there’s plenty of places to point. But your Hawaiian argument reeks of ignorance.
And again, that has nothing in common with the PRC/ROC division.
You claim that the US is the only reason Taiwan doesn’t want to be part of the PRC. Is that what the PRC government tells its people? That the Taiwanese desperately want to dissolve their government and submit to the PRC but us evil Americans won’t let them? Why not ask some Taiwanese people about that?
You admit that there is a “problem in Taiwan,” but maintain the illusion that the PRC controls Taiwan? You can’t have it both ways. Either you control it, or you don’t.
There is nothing else you can say to me, because you ran out of arguments a while ago and keep trying to push some narrative about Hawaii. You haven’t answered any of the questions from my last comment. You haven’t given me any reasons why Taiwan is really part of the PRC in any practical sense, because there isn’t one.
Should really read that link I gave you up there from an actual native person in Hawaii.
The only thing that reeks of ignorance is claiming that US isn’t the only reason Taiwan issue exists. Where did the money for separatist movement come from exactly, who created the sunflower movement, and props up the DPP excatly?
US is the problem in Taiwan, after the civil war in China, US decided to prop up the side that lost and actually referred to Taiwan as an unsinkable carrier. That’s the problem in Taiwan.
There is nothing else I can say to you because it’s pretty clear that you’re either woefully uninformed on the subject you’re attempting to debate or just a shill for your empire.
If the people of Hawai’i had a completely different form of government and separate foreign relations and the public popularly supported independence, why would they not be allowed that? None of those are true though. Independence is not popular in Hawai’i. The Native population would like more autonomy and recognition which they should get but that is a fast cry from wanting independence.
Well, to be fair, they wouldn’t be allowed that. We had a bit of a war about that sort of thing, and the supreme court maintains that a state has no right to leave the union. But you’re exactly right that independence isn’t popular in Hawaii.