A woman in Florida says her 55-year-old “medically fragile” father was falsely accused of theft at a Florida grocery store last week and then seriously injured in a violent encounter with police. Now, she says, he is hospitalized and has lost the ability to speak.
If you walk up to someone with a bat in your hand and tell them to pick on someone your own size, you are threatening them with the bat.
If not to be a threat there is no purpose to bring the bat
From her account the Karen in the store had already laid hands on her father at this point and was then continuing to follow and harass him. Sounds like self defense to me.
It’s not self-defense, it may be defense of another, but she was not involved in it until she involved herself
Then you don’t understand the concept of self defense.
A bat is a deadly weapon. To justify the use of a deadly weapon in self defense or defense of others, a reasonable person must believe there is a credible, criminal, imminent, threat of death or grievous bodily harm, and that the deadly weapon was necessary to end that threat.
“Laying hands” does not describe anything remotely close to such a threat.
Oh dear, a classic case of downvoted for uncomfortable truth. The fickle nature of forums strike again.
I think if the person is white you can use “stand your ground” and shoot people of color without issue. This isn’t about her having a bat, it’s that she doesn’t look “white enough” to use the same defense several white folks have used now. And those white folks went looking for trouble and still got to shoot people with impunity. She only had a bat and was basically telling the Karen if she wants a problem to keep it up.
I just don’t see how that isn’t self defense. She also feared for her father’s life from some racist shithead that instead of calling police if she really thought there was an issue, decided to put her hands on this gentleman and then continue to harass him. And I don’t know that stores particularly policy, but most chains strongly discourage harassing and chasing down customers because you have a hunch they may have taken something. So she also likely broke store policy in pursuit of her racist vendetta.
How do you know she walked right up to Karen? How do you know she didn’t just go and stand by her father while leaning on the bat?
And why didn’t the woman just ask to see the receipt instead of going all Karen?
You assume too much.
Based just on the facts, she picked up a bat and then issued a threatening statement. Whether you are 2 feet away or 50, that is still threatening someone with a weapon.
Why are you arguing against this?
I assumed nothing.
I used only the things that the lady herself stated.
If you disagree please point me to the information that you think proves your point.
I will look at it and reevaluate, I might not change my mind but I will at least listen to your opinion.
Please, feel free.
Based on what media is reporting, which is rarely ALL the facts.
And you do assume you know how far away she was standing, what her tone of voice was, etc. If you weren’t there = you don’t know for sure.
You also didn’t respond to my question why Karen just didn’t ask to see the receipt … like a non-racist likely would.
Because I am not trying to defend her actions.
I agree that that is what should have happened.
Can you give me an example of how holding a metal bat in your hand and telling that to someone in this situation would not be a threat?
Look, my personal mantra is “pick on someone your own size”, which I chant every morning when I’m roaming the streets with my walking bat.
Only a bigot would find that threatening.
Ok, I can’t help but give an exception for that.
You are making sure to bang it creepily while talking in a sing-song voice right?
Eh, it’s more of an summoning Moloch vibe.
But whenever someone makes eye contact, I make sure to never blink.
You have to mix it up and drag it slowly on the pavement behind you for a while, too.
Based on what she has said. Her description of her own actions with the bat constitute a threat. Unless you’re arguing she was misquoted, she issued a threat with a deadly weapon.
If you read the rest of the story, they claim she was waiting outside with the bat telling the lady to come out, went inside and knocked a bunch of shit off of shelves, etc.
Which may not be true, but pretty sure a bunch of people were being stupid and escalating things here.
everyone was escalating here, except perhaps the victim. Even then, it seems like you get the manager and make sure they have the cashiers statements instead of trying to leave
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