• S_204@lemm.ee
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    9 months ago

    75 years of being attacked leads to some fucked up thinking. Most Israelis, like most Palestinians know people who have been victims of violence repeatedly. Their mindsets aren’t the same as those in the West with the safety and security provided by border stability. Which is why it’s so interesting seeing the Western ideals being pushed on this conflict. Those ravers should be jailed though, they’re contradicting the ICJ order. Whether it’s the Israeli government or not, the order was to enable the provision of aid and that means clearing obstacles.

      • S_204@lemm.ee
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        9 months ago

        There’s no brainwashing needed to be able to read a history book at every turn. It’s been the Arabs who have attacked and the Israelis who have defended.

        And just like we saw in October Palestinians struck out and now they’re crying because they’re losing yet another war they start. It’s an age-old tactic for Arabs to use human suffering in order to garner sympathy from the West, and it works for good reason. Nothing has changed since it was pointed out that peace will not come until Arabs love their children as much as they hate Jews and nothing will change until they stop raising martyrs and start deradicalizing their people. Defunding UNRWA is a good first step.

        • Keeponstalin@lemmy.world
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          9 months ago

          What history books are you reading?

          Antisemitism in Islam and Arab World

          British Mandate Period:

          The Concept of Transfer 1882-1948

          Palestinian Arab Congress advocating for Unified State 1928

          1929 Riots from Forward and 972Mag

          Shaw Commission

          Peel Commission Report and Memorandum of the Arab Higher Committee 1937

          1936-1939 Revolt from JVL, Britannica, MEE

          Irgun and Lehi activity

          What Hitler and the Grand Mufti Really Said: Time, Haaretz, WaPo

          Yosef Weitz’ unofficial Transfer Committee and the JNF. Which has dispossessed Palestinians to present day. 972mag, MEE, Haaretz

          1948 to 1967:

          Plan Dalet and Declassified Massacres

          Additional context of what was detailed in Plan C (May 1946) and Plan D (March 1948)

          Arab League advocating for unified state 1948

          1967 war Declassified

          Israel Martial Law and Defence (Emergency) Regulations practiced in the occupied territories after 1967

          How the US became the ally of Israel

          UK influence

          Occupation:

          Occupation and 50 years of dispossession

          1st Intifada AJ, PBS, Haaretz

          Oslo Accords MEE, NYT, Haaretz, AJ

          2nd Intifada AJ, Haaretz

          Gaza Blockade is Occupation

          Dahiya Doctrine

          Arab Israelis are not equal including Education (2001 report)

          Palestinian Prisoners in Israel and Military Court

          Child abuse of Palestinian prisoners

          Apartheid

          Human Shields including Children (2013 Report)

          Settler Violence, Torture and Abuse in Interrogations, No freedom of movement, and also Water control

          Gaza March for Return Protest

          Palestinians lack civil rights

          Hamas founding charter and Revised charter 2017

          History of Hamas supported by Netanyahu since 2012

          AWRAD Gaza War Poll

          PCPSR Public Opinion Poll Dec 2023

          History of peace process

          One State Solution, Foreign Affairs archived here

          10 Myths of Israel

            • S_204@lemm.ee
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              9 months ago

              The gish gallop doesn’t change the fact that the Arab Nations instigated and started every war since the inception of Israel. Half of those posts affirm Arab aggression as well.

              Also notably missing from the list is the near million Jews ethnically cleansed from the Arab countries surrounding Israel in the 40s. For all the talk of the Nakba, there were more Jews displaced than Arabs. Yet one group accepted reality and built a nation. The other is still fighting a war they lost 3 generations ago.

          • S_204@lemm.ee
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            9 months ago

            I’ve read most of what you’ve posted here in my university education. More than half of that is irrelevant. Of course non israelis don’t have rights in Israel. Israeli Arabs do though. Half of your posts affirm Arab aggression too.

            Plenty of back and forth, are you denying the fact that the Arab Nations instigated and were the aggressors in each of the wars started since the inception of Israel?

            • Keeponstalin@lemmy.world
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              9 months ago

              Somehow, I’m not convinced you read any of the links. Did you know over 250 thousand Palestinians were forcibly displaced before Israel declared independence?

              There are more than 50 laws that discriminate against Palestinian citizens of Israel. directly or indirectly, based solely on their ethnicity, rendering them second or third class citizens in their own homeland.

              By August 1937, “transfer” was a major subject of discussion at the Twentieth Zionist Congress in Zurich, Switzerland. Alluding to the systematic dispossession of Palestinian peasants (fellahin) that Zionist organizations had been engaged in for years, David Ben-Gurion, who would become Israel’s first prime minister in 1948, stated: “You are no doubt aware of the [Jewish National Fund’s] activity in this respect. Now a transfer of a completely different scope will have to be carried out. In many parts of the country new settlement will not be possible without transferring the Arab fellahin.” He concluded: “Jewish power [in Palestine], which grows steadily, will also increase our possibilities to carry out this transfer on a large scale.”

              By the time the state of Israel was declared on May 14, 1948, more than 200 Palestinian villages had already been emptied as people fled in fear or were forcibly expelled by Zionist forces, and approximately 175,000 Palestinians had been made refugees. By 1949, at least 750,000 Palestinians had been made refugees, losing their land, homes and other belongings in what became known as the “Nakba” (“catastrophe”).

              Between 1948 (when Israel declared independence) and 1966, Palestinian citizens of Israel were subject to military rule. After 1966, martial law was lifted but to this day they continue to suffer from widespread, systematic and institutionalized discrimination affecting everything from land ownership and employment opportunities to family reunification rights. Today, there are approximately 1.9 million (Updated December 2019) Palestinian citizens of Israel, comprising about 21% of Israel’s population.

              The documents describe detailed preparations that were made in the military in the years before 1967, with the intention of organizing in advance the control of territories that the defense establishment assessed – with high certainty – would be conquered in the next war. A perusal of the information indicates that the takeover and retention of these areas – the West Bank from Jordan, the Sinai Peninsula and Gaza Strip from Egypt, and the Golan Heights from Syria – were not a by-product of the fighting, but the manifestation of a strategic approach and prior preparations.

              Following the 1967 war, martial law over the Palestinian population as well as the Jordanian, Syrian, and Egyptian populations in these areas was put in place. In 1993, the Oslo I agreements facilitated limited self-rule for Palestinians under the Palestinian National Authority. Officially, only parts of Area C in the West Bank are under martial law.

              The first intifada erupted 25 years ago. What started as local demonstrations snowballed into a sweeping popular uprising that did not die down until the convening of the Madrid peace conference at the end of 1991. The intifada reinvigorated the Palestine Liberation Organization, which was at a low ebb in its history after its forced evacuation from Lebanon and the concomitant loss of the military and political option. More important, the intifada shifted the focal point of the Palestinian national struggle from the “outside” to the “inside.”

              The Second Intifada, was a major uprising by Palestinians against the Israeli occupation, characterized by a period of heightened violence in the Palestinian territories and Israel between 2000 and 2005. The general triggers for the unrest are speculated to have been centered on the failure of the 2000 Camp David Summit, which was expected to reach a final agreement in July 2000. An uptick in violent incidents started in September 2000, after Israeli politician Ariel Sharon made a provocative visit to the Al-Aqsa compound, which is situated atop the Temple Mount in East Jerusalem; the visit itself was peaceful, but, as anticipated, sparked protests and riots that Israeli police put down with rubber bullets, live ammunition, and tear gas. Within the first few days of the uprising, the IDF had fired one million rounds of ammunition.

              The “great march” entailed weekly demonstrations by Palestinians near the fence that since 1996 has separated Gaza and Israel (along the Green Line traced by the armistice agreements of 1949), demanding that the blockade imposed on Gaza be lifted and the return of Palestinian refugees. Prior to the first demonstration, Israeli forces reinforced their positions at the fence with additional troops, including more than 100 sharpshooters. They permitted snipers to shoot at the legs of “main inciters” as a means to prevent a demonstrating crowd from crossing the separation fence.

        • SkippingRelax@lemmy.world
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          9 months ago

          Wow, the other guy already addressed the history books part but I wanted to stop for a second and focus on

          It’s an age-old tactic for Arabs to […]

          Wonder how people would take it if we were addressing the other party in this conflict, and someone like you would throw in a gross generalisation, pointing out that it goes back a long time.

          • S_204@lemm.ee
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            9 months ago

            LoL, like gross generalizing hasn’t warped the word Zionist into the updated version of dirty Jew.

            The history remains the same, the surrounding Arab Nations have been attacking Israel since it’s inception. they refuse to acknowledge Israel and they continue to feed bodies into martyrdom in the name of their goal of a pan arabian caliphate. The wild thing is they don’t even deny it, but the West refuses to accept their own words.

            • Milk_Sheikh@lemm.ee
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              9 months ago

              I can give multiple examples of group members who disagree with elements of their group so substantively, they split off and form new groups. Schisms are normal reactions to outside/inside actors co-opting or directing a group, Mensheviks and Bolsheviks, Protestants and Catholics, America and the Commonwealth…

              If you’re upset that something is being done by a group you’re a part of, who openly declares to be working towards a goal that is unpopular outside the group, leave the group. There are plenty of Jews and Jewish groups that reject revisionist Zionism and/or Kahanism, the notion of Jewishness is not owned by a political party nor ideology. Claiming that criticism of the movement is a dog whistle, becomes unconvincing and is disingenuous to the reader

            • SkippingRelax@lemmy.world
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              9 months ago

              So its okay for you to do it? Must be confusing to be you mate. I won’t even touch the second part, someone posted a few links before, since you keep mentioning ‘history’ it might be time to start reading about it instead if just making things up

              • S_204@lemm.ee
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                9 months ago

                Most of those links supported the position that Arabs are the aggressors FFS. Did you even read them?

                I’m very familiar with the history of this region, and I’m very positive that it was not the Israelis who started the wars they’ve suffered from.

                It’s actually perfectly fine for Israel to defend itself, that much was made clear in the ICJ ruling. What the ruling didn’t establish though is that there’s a genocide happening.

                  • S_204@lemm.ee
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                    9 months ago

                    The people who were living in the region fought off invaders, named a King and started spreading the tribes out from there according to the archeological record.

          • S_204@lemm.ee
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            9 months ago

            Being Arab isn’t a race and if it was I’d be saying it about myself.

            • Zevlen@lemmy.world
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              9 months ago

              Being Muslim is definitely not a race; not so sure about the Arab part.

              Race is a social construct after all. Humans are all one specie of Animal. What we see are just slight genetical variation from one ethnicity/culture to another.

        • yeahiknow3@lemmings.world
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          9 months ago

          The problem with your hypothesis is that all of us can read a history book, and yet few would agree with the majority of Israeli citizens that murdering children is justified.

          Again, if someone were persecuted, why would that make him want to murder random children? It makes no logical sense. The only explanation is brainwashing and religious zealotry.

          • S_204@lemm.ee
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            9 months ago

            You mean when King David granted lands to the tribes?

            Or more recently when the British mandate was lifted, and Jordan and Israel were granted nation status by the UN? Do you know how India and Pakistan was founded?