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Why do I feel like so many people here support the USSR and the CCP? - Lemmy
web.archive.orgMaybe it’s because of federation with lemmygrad, but I always feel like there’s quite a heavy anti-western or pro-communism bias. There are people arguing that NATO is expanding eastward (which, I don’t think it is, instead you just have more eastern countries are joining it) and “invading” (which, I mean it’s a defensive alliance that countries voluntarily join: “don’t attack us or we will all have to attack you” should only be worrying if you actually plan an invasion.)
There’s also people talking about how the collapse of the soviet union was a disaster, and using the Mercator projection to argue how Russia is bigger than Ukraine.
This isn’t really a problem on its own, but I find it surprising how many upvotes this stuff gets. Soviet Gulag killed just as many people as Nazi concentration camps, and the Soviet Union would only fall after everyone was so sick of it (eastern block declaring independence, for example) that it died. Surely, surely nobody looks at an authoritarian dictator and thinks “yeah i trust that person (with insane influence and little opposition) to not abuse their power and have my (a peasant) best interests (which are contradictory to theirs) at heart”.
Don’t even get me started on China, which still insists that Taiwan (which has been its own country since the CCP took power of the mainland) shouldn’t have any independence (imperialism…); and the country is clearly so sensitive about it they threw a hissy-fit and started doing military exercises outside Taiwan after they committed the horrible crime of… having a diplomat visit. Oh also China trying to exclude Wikimedia for acknowledging that Taiwan exists, claiming “disinformation”. Oh did I mention harassing and banning VTubers who say it is a country, even outside of a political setting?
Say what you will about China and an anti-china bias in the west, but any country that implements or supports a splinternet, or needlessy engages in border disputes with neighbouring countries meanwhile oppressing people within Chinese borders who have been living there for ages for not being chinese enough.
Again, don’t get me wrong I don’t think the west is immune from any of this (and in fact I think there is a lack of criticism of the west), but anyone who claims the west is evil while simultaneously glorifying countries that implement concentration camps comes off as fascistic and ignorant.
Sorry if this comes off as more of a rant than a question, but surely I can’t be the only one who feels this way?
I think Lemmy has a lot of Far Left people on the site. In this instance, I’m referring to people who are staunchly against capitalism and often in favor of communism, even if they don’t support CCP or Russia. I’ve also noted a higher-than-normal instances of anarchists here.
As for specifically pro-China shills, I’ve only seen one, but they were very active in c/worldnews.
If Lemmy grows in popularity, I expect we’ll see the community shift more towards center, for better and/or worse.
Which is weird, because far left communists are the absolute last people I would expect to support Russia or China.
Not from what I’ve seen, at least with respect to China. Plenty of them seem to minimize the deplorable actions of the CCP while extolling it’s economic policies. They frequently hold China up as a shining example a successful communist state and seem more interested in the fact that it challenges the West and capitalism than they are concerned about it’s numerous human rights violations and total disregard for the sovereignty of its neighbors.
That’s what I don’t understand. China isn’t a Communist state, not since the 90s. They gutted their social safety net, lowered taxes on the rich, privatized most of their economy and then sold all their industry to multinational corporations. They’re farther from communism than the average EU country now, and about on par with the US.
Same with Russia. Russia is basically Galt’s Gulch now, which is why a segment of the GOP love it so much. It’s like he lemmygraders stopped paying attention around 1990 and think nothing has changed since then.
It doesn’t really cost much money to hire people to push a false narrative about your country. Honestly, it would be more surprising if they weren’t doing this. There might be some people genuinely spouting pro-China nonsense but they’re getting those talking points from somewhere.
It starts with state controlled media, then paid shills spread it all over the internet, eventually real people who are maybe pissed at their own country’s shortcomings start pushing the narrative as well.
I don’t pretend to know much about how China functions, but I know enough to know its certainly more capitalistic than Mao would have liked. But this is why I’m not a fan of communism—the most developed countries that embraced it all became horrible dictatorships that betray the most central tenets of communism. In other words, it doesn’t seem to work all that well, at least not on a grand scale. For it to work as intended, I think it requires a fairly small community—like a commune. I’m not a fan of capitalism either though; my preference is something in the middle, more like Democratic socialism.
But the point is, some Far Lefties do seem to like China for whatever reason. Again, I think they mainly just like that they’re opposing capitalism and view the CCP through some very rose-colored classes.
We’re getting a bit off topic from the original question, but I’ll chime in b/c why not.
Technically, neither China nor the USSR were communist states. They were/are socialist states run the by the communist party. Neither were able to get rid of capitalism. China has taken an approach of “socialism with Chinese characteristics” for their “implementation”.
China is still “socialist” in a sense because socialism is a pretty broad spectrum. They’ve kept capitalism along side socialism, but try to keep capitalism beholden to the state.
People talk well about China b/c the economic policies have arguably worked quite well given where they’ve come from. That doesn’t mean you have to agree or support some of their …worse… policies. It’s a mixed bag. But so is the west.
As of now, China is the closest large economy for an existing implementation of socialism. There are other states, but they aren’t as large or successful as China.
But yeah, I do agree that the lemmygraders are a bit much. But that’s my thoughts on what I’ve seen since joining and why I think lemmy seems to trend where it does on that topic.
I think the only people supposing the CCP these days are actual Chinese people. A distaste for China seems to be the sole unifying topic in the west.
Most also doesn’t. It’s just the tankies who does that. Many of the Lemmy devs are tankies, and the instance they set up lemmy.ml is as full of tankies as lemmygrad. So many of the popular communities hosted there will have a heavy tankie slant.
In the wild tankies are a fringe minority, but for these particular historical reasons, Lemmy has had a disproportionately high amount of tankies who have been dominating many communities. I think with the reddit influx their hold has somewhat diminished, and it should continually do so as the amount of Lemmy users grows.
So many people, in this, the age of social media, when they subscribe to an -ism, feel the need to stake that ground and defend it from anyone who attacks it. They mistake that feeling for the need to defend anyone else that ever claimed the same -ism.
It’s the same impulse that drives the American practice of “the republicans are defending this, so I, a democrat have to attack it.” (See: CNN under trump for a great example). This obviously works both ways, the more ridiculous ones usually go the other way from dem to repub. But followers of both parties do it. Same goes for everyone on the internet, almost, communists are definitely also very high on that list, suddenly denying all sorts of massacres. It’s nuts
I think because there’s not a ton of people here and posts don’t usually get hundreds of comments, a few very active users can really stand out. There’s one person in particular all over the Ukraine war communities that is obviously a Russian troll. It’s easy to just think Lemmy is overrun with pro Russians but if you pay attention, it’s mostly just one idiot that posts a lot.
Thats really the right way to go about it, support the ideas not the absolute piece of trash implementations that only served to enrich the few. Both ccp and ussr were clear examples of that.