• Echo Dot@feddit.uk
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    9 months ago

    There’s a difference between NATO countries and NATO the organisation.

    The United States would be going around the world starting wars regardless of whether it’s in NATO or not. Got to feed that industrial military complex

      • ripcord@lemmy.world
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        9 months ago

        I don’t know what their deal is exactly (and they clearly have an agenda), but do you really think Lemmy is big enough to be a target for paid actors?

        • Otakulad@lemmy.world
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          9 months ago

          Send people to all corners of the Internet to sow your pro-Russian stance. And if not paid, I would say a Putin fan, someone being threatened by the Russian government, or just a troll. Take your pick. All are possible.

          • bumphot@lemy.lol
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            9 months ago

            I think Putin is horrible, I never said otherwise, not a fan. And a troll doesn’t post sources, you however are a troll. You just call everyone who critiques NATO a Russian bot. You are either a troll or completly insane

            • Otakulad@lemmy.world
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              9 months ago
              1. Never called you a bot.

              2. You have no link to a source in the thread I was replying to.

              3. Anyone who looks at the things Putin has done in the last two years and thinks that NATO is worse is the one who is insane.

        • bumphot@lemy.lol
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          9 months ago

          Of course no one is paid to post on lemmy, this person is a lunatic that thinks anyone who critisizes their own government must be a Russian spy.

        • oatscoop@midwest.social
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          9 months ago

          Targeting a smaller, receptive audience is actually better than going after larger and more diverse ones. With the later you’re more likely to get called out for your bullshit.

          The former is more likely to listen, and a small echo-chamber will eliminate dissidents. That relatively small core group will gladly modify the message to better appeal to the local/culture they belong to, and spread it wide-and-far while obscuring the original source.

          It’s a highly effective strategy: look at Qanon. It started on 8chan of all places, with a tiny userbase behind it.

      • jordanlund@lemmy.worldM
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        9 months ago

        Removed under rule 5, you’re free to attack their content, but not them personally.

        “Rule 5: Keep it civil. It’s OK to say the subject of an article is behaving like a (perjorative, perjorative). It’s NOT OK to say another USER is (perjorative). Strong language is fine, just not directed at other members. Engage in good-faith and with respect!”

            • Otakulad@lemmy.world
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              9 months ago

              Fine, I accept that, but what exactly did I say that caused the post to be removed? All I said was he was probably a paid posted. How is that not being civil?

              • jordanlund@lemmy.worldM
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                9 months ago

                You can see your modlog here:

                https://lemmy.world/modlog?page=1&userId=1641922

                “This poster is a paid Russian sympathizer. Baby account, bad English, and only posted in posts regarding this topic.”

                Rule 5: Keep it civil. It’s OK to say the subject of an article is behaving like a (perjorative, perjorative). **It’s NOT OK to say another USER is (perjorative). Strong language is fine, just not directed at other members.**Engage in good-faith and with respect!

                Attacking other users, which you did three times in one comment, is not allowed.

                • Otakulad@lemmy.world
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                  9 months ago

                  Yeah, no. Your interpretation is incorrect in my opinion.

                  Yes, it was a baby account. Only 6 hours old. The icon next to their name is a baby. How can you punish me for something the site does as well?

                  Also, the English the person used did not sound like it was English as a first language.

                  Lastly, let’s take a look at your verbiage.

                  Perjorative: expressing contempt or disapproval

                  Calling a person a paid Russian sympathizer does not meet this definition. He was acting as if Russia is the victim in this story. I was saying what he was.

                  I would appreciate if when reports are made, they are actually looked at and not blindly removed.

    • bumphot@lemy.lol
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      9 months ago

      But they also influence NATO organizations through various requirements of joining the NATO so that in the practice, they are involved. NATO as an organization has participated in mmultiple invasitions around the World, it is on the Wikipedia page. All of their military involvements where in non-NATO countries. Nobody ever attacked a NATO country, they never did a defensive war. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NATO#Military_operations

      • PrettyFlyForAFatGuy@feddit.uk
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        9 months ago

        they never did a defensive war

        Great success then.

        Only non-Nato countries have to fight defensive wars. Thanks for convincing me of NATOs effectiveness

        • bumphot@lemy.lol
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          9 months ago

          I never said NATO is not effective defensive strategy for the government, just that it is effective offensive strategy as well. However this only applies to the government, not the people. Troops are sent to die in these offensive wars, while otherwise they would be safe at home. Don’t spin this as an opposite claim that all non-NATO countries end up in a war. Some of the countries now in NATO where invaded by NATO first and then forced to join. That is like saying surrendering is safer then being nutral, bacause they can’t attack you if you are already surrendered.

          • StinkyOnions@lemmy.world
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            9 months ago

            NATO does not force countries to join. There’s an application process. You’re spouting literal Russian propaganda.

            • bumphot@lemy.lol
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              9 months ago

              A country that is attacked by NATO doesn’t join it after 15-20 years with their populations support. They fund the politicians that are pro-NATO and get them to join it without the support of the people. It is what actually happened in places like Montenegro. Just beacuse it is horrible, don’t assume it is not true. As for blaming me of spreading a russian propaganda, beacuse of letting you know that we have part in impersialistic regimes, I have a book for you.

              • PrettyFlyForAFatGuy@feddit.uk
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                9 months ago

                Montenegro didn’t even exist as a political entity when the Operation Allied Force was in operation. Montenegro was created when it split from Serbia in 2006. At which point it found it’s self on a border with a russian friendly state and rightly sought protection from NATO. which makes sense with NATO being a defensive alliance

                I would remind you as well that the bombings of serbia were signed off on by the UN security council which included russia to bring an end to the conflict there. The bombings did bring an end to the conflict there.

                It’s disingenuous to just say “hurr durr nato bombed serbia. nato bad”

                And yeah, when you toe the kremlin line, people call you kremlin shill. no amount of childish pictures you post will change that

                • bumphot@lemy.lol
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                  9 months ago

                  Well the people in Montegro existed and they where part of the same country that was bombed. There are more montenegrians living in Belgrade then in Montegro, they didn’t like the bombing. Besides, Serbia is not Russian friendly at all, that is propaganda. Serbian government did 10 times more NATO joint military exercises then with Russia, not only are they not Russia friendly, they are hardly neutral. They have NATO offices inside the general military headquaters, the same that building that is still in ruins from the NATO bombing in 1999. Main opposistion persidential candidate in last elections was a litaral NATO general. Serbia also recieves more donations from EU then any other entetiy and every law passed in the last 20 years was EU law in hopes of integretions that will never happen and people know it. Entire Blakan is under NATO thumb, the rest is just politics and PR. When you see the actual actions, like Serbia passing secretly passing weapons for Ukraine or wikileaks files showing CIA using Balkain states to supply weapons to taliban, the picture makes far more sense.

          • PrettyFlyForAFatGuy@feddit.uk
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            9 months ago

            No country has ever been forced to join NATO. a country has to apply to join and a defensive alliance only works if all members are willing

            • bumphot@lemy.lol
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              9 months ago

              They are made to be willing by funding politicains that secretly support it. When they get in power, they join without the support of their people. CIA has a long history of medeling in elections and this statement that it is willing is of course manufactured, as most of the democratic processes are.

              • PrettyFlyForAFatGuy@feddit.uk
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                9 months ago

                all the superpowers have a long history in meddling with each other domestic affairs. it’s a superpower thing, not a NATO thing

                CIA != NATO

                • bumphot@lemy.lol
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                  9 months ago

                  I completely agree about all superpowers.

                  CIA and NATO are very close.