The same fearmongering we heard in 2016 and 2020. You must save Democracy for the 12th year in a row by voting Democrat!!
After Trump dies some other Republican will take over that says crazier shit and then you must keep saving Demoracy by always voting Democrat. Never vote third party.
We aren’t Russia (for now). We can still effect change at the state level by getting rid of First Past The Post voting and passing comprehensive electoral reform.
Well historically I’ve voted independent. I’m Canadian, but we have similar party issues.
Honestly seeing shit like this though, if it really is just fearmongering, it’s fucking working. This shit looks horrifying to me, I’d probably end up voting for Biden just to not let trump in. And I fucking hate Biden.
Trump already won in 2016 and the world didn’t end back then. It’s not going to be better than Biden but it sure as hell isn’t going to be as bad as people here make it out to be.
The Democrats sure waited a long time to prosececute Trump with that. Now the result of that trial will be after the election. Thank Democrats for saving Trump from jail.
What’re you talking about? Democrats were sharply criticizing Garland for not bringing charges sooner, and still are. The Justice Department is independent, not an arm of the presidency.
And, it took Garland time to bring a case because you can’t put together a case against the previous president of the US in a day. You only have one shot at a prosecution like that, and it needs to be flawless. It’s like the phrase “when you swing at the King, you better not miss”. It takes time to build the necessary case.
Blame the supreme court instead for being lazy and in Trump’s pocket.
The American fascist party was born prematurely. They’ve spent the last eight years incubating within the Republican party and are ready to go mask-off now.
There also wasn’t any hurricane katrina style fiascos under Trump, as well as Trump deciding not to invade Venezuela, which was a surprise. The Syria shit wasn’t great, but it was NOTHING like Iraq.
God the bar is set so fucking low it’s embarrassing.
Trump’s biggest fail was when he drone striked Iranian general Suleimani at the request of Israel. But luckily Iran didn’t decide to escalate it so we didn’t get a big war back then.
Nobody thought Trump was going to win until too late. RBG thought the next president would also be a Democrat.
But she was also naive and thought that she should do her job as long as possible, and that Republicans could be reasoned with. The court really needs a max age.
Regardless, this is a bit moot, since Trump had 3 total SCOTUS picks. RBG’s seat was just one.
And once again, we can thank the DNC for sabotaging Bernie to make Hillary the candidate.
Even better if we just go back to Obama who had all power and was asked to codify abortion rights, and then didn’t. Because it’s a great tool to keep people voting Democrat.
I hope you’re right. It went about how I thought it would go last time. That insurrection thing threw me though. And all the court cases coming after trump, as well as that project 2025 thing, this time seems different to me.
If the Dems were serious about prosecuting him he wouldn’t get bailed out at the last second every time.
Also Dems purposely delayed the inserruction case now the verdict won’t be until after the election. Real convenient now nothing can stop Trump except voting for Biden.
I have been really annoyed with the protest vote arguments because our system is horseshit and we still have to play within it, but there is no disagreeing with this. I’ll be voting a lot of these useless assholes back in this time as a last-ditch effort, but a purge of the bad actors is long in order. I lost faith in our institutions with Trump in charge, but when it’s come down to punishing that hunk of offal, nothing the dems have done has brought that faith back.
To be honest though, even if things in that situation were going better, I’d still be unconvinced. Outside said institutions, I truly believe that we are not participating in a society, we haven’t been for decades, and that’s got nothing to do with the government.
If that’s actually their game plan, then that’s the most idiotic game plan I’ve ever seen and it is definitely going to put trump back in the White House.
They can’t seriously be that stupid though. Can they?
I think it could be possible that this is the game plan they’re going with because it’s lazy and won’t piss off any donors, which doing things actual leftists want would definitely do.
The DNC screwed over Bernie in 2016 to make sure a real progressives wouldn’t win. They shoved in Hillary which was (and is) so bad she lost to Trump 1.
The Clintons actually suggested Trump to run thinking he’d be such a pathetic opponent that it would land them an easy victory.
Make no mistake, the Democrats prefer having Trump win over someone that could actually impose change.
Trump is their perfect enemy because they can keep running trash candidates and having them win solely on “not Trump”.
Democrat voters screwed over Bernie, not the DNC. Bernie was on every single ballot. All people would have had to do is actually get off of their pampered asses and go vote for him. They didn’t. She won. We got Trump as a result.
They can’t seriously be that stupid though. Can they?
They’re not stupid. They’re pro-corporatists. They can’t prosecute Trump without harming some other rich fucks in the process. When Trump said he’d have to have a fire sale to make the bond amount that wasn’t a complaint it was a threat. Commercial real estate is already being propped up by fake numbers. If Trumps properties went up for sale it would blow that whole thing up. That’s why he’s being protected.
Pro-corporatism has no way of addressing fascism. And the Democrats are a pro-corporate party.
But throughout it all, life went on. The people of Germany lived in and often simply accepted the new normal that came with the rise of fascism –- a state of normalcy that, if the war had ended differently, could have become normal, everyday life for much of the rest of Europe as well. source
What a charmed life you must lead. I wasn’t really affected by his policies either but have you noticed the way things have been turning for the people his goons have been targeting since the chuds became empowered?
It is imperative that we bury the GOP first. Then, we absolutely can and should go knives out on Team Blue™️. I don’t disagree that Biden needs to go, and that most of the Democrats are obstacles at best to truly repairing our long-dead society. Hell, don’t just vote, actually fucking run for office, start somewhere where you aren’t so completely outgunned by the moneyed interests but you also actually make a difference. But for now, we need to take down the more immediate threat.
Throw rocks at me for saying it, but the Dems’ fecklessness is our fault too, to an extent. The problem is complacency when the pendulum appears to have swung in our direction, like “yeah we got the job done!* Let’s have pizza and congratulate ourselves and go back home!” Fortunately, it may finally no longer be the case. But for christ’s sake, can we not throw the baby out with the bathwater? The upcoming, inevitable fight will be less harrowing if we can keep from actively making the battlefield more hazardous, which absolutely will happen with a Trump win.
*christ, I remember when Obama was elected and there was a false prospect of healthcare reform, Newsweek published a rather insulting cover saying, “we are all socialists now”, simultaneously feeding the right’s paranoia and patronizing the left in such an insulting way
You’re not going to bury the GOP by voting Democrat. You will just worsen the situation.
Biden is continuing to build the wall, jailed twice as many immigrants as Trump, is committing Genocide, and so much more. Biden is just a GOP candidate with D in front of his name. He is one of the biggest establishment democrats who has built his career on empowering the elites.
Probably not. But maybe the moderate and liberal voters will finally wake the fuck up and realize they need to compromise with leftists or progressives if they want to win elections.
Ehh, I think it’s more that we have to be a better electorate and put better people in office in the first place, even (and especially) when there is a dem majority. Like I said, we have had the tendency to get complacent when that’s the case. It also doesn’t help that, for a long time, we didn’t have a cohesive message—when Occupy was happening, everyone’s demands were all over the damn place and just came off as diffuse and disorganized. But like I also said, it sounds like we’re getting better about it, though I don’t know whether that’s because this place really does lean heavily left, not reflecting the population at large. That may not be such a bad thing though, this place could be a good place for planning action.
I don’t disagree that the democrats are, at best, milquetoast, feckless do-nothings, but fighting everyone at once seems like it’s going to be an abject disaster with any victories being pyrrhic, if existent at all. I hope I’m wrong. I just don’t want my daughter, anyone’s daughter, to become a brood mare for the dominionist state.
I think it’s more that we have to be a better electorate
Who’s “we”? I know exactly which race and generation is to blame for all this pro-corporate trash that keeps making it’s way through the Democratic primaries. And even people who say “Well more of you show up to the primaries!” argue that liberal and moderate voters won’t vote for progressive or leftist candidates or even a liberal or moderate candidate who dares materially compromise with progressive or leftist policy. So we’ll win the primary only to lose the general.
The same fearmongering we heard in 2016 and 2020. You must save Democracy for the 12th year in a row by voting Democrat!!
After Trump dies some other Republican will take over that says crazier shit and then you must keep saving Demoracy by always voting Democrat. Never vote third party.
The line is wearing thin, since democracy keeps being in greater peril even when we elect Democratic majorities.
Democrats would rather protect the filibuster than democracy.
Democrats would rather lose the election to a fascist than stop aiding a genocide.
1
Pointing out that Biden will lose if he continues supporting genocide is not supporting Trump.
1
Your question is framed in such a way that it presupposes that the person you are asking is gonna vote for Trump.
Don’t try to walk it back now.
1
You asked as though they wanted Trump to win and now you’re pretending you didn’t.
When they’re both doing genocide, does it matter?
It does when one wants to do more genocide, and make it local.
Maybe you guys will get a say in the genocide next election cycle, sorry.
Everything is getting worse regardless.
Let’s get it over with.
We aren’t Russia (for now). We can still effect change at the state level by getting rid of First Past The Post voting and passing comprehensive electoral reform.
No we can’t. Liberal and moderate voters will never allow it. Nor would the establishment Democrats it’s benefitted.
Certainly there will be no blowback for allowing a genocide to occur to prevent fascism.
Well historically I’ve voted independent. I’m Canadian, but we have similar party issues.
Honestly seeing shit like this though, if it really is just fearmongering, it’s fucking working. This shit looks horrifying to me, I’d probably end up voting for Biden just to not let trump in. And I fucking hate Biden.
Trump already won in 2016 and the world didn’t end back then. It’s not going to be better than Biden but it sure as hell isn’t going to be as bad as people here make it out to be.
It almost did. There was a mob of people just a couple doors away from murdering most of congress and making Trump a dictator.
The only reason Trump failed to end democracy is because he and the rest of the Republican party were just trying things without a real plan.
They have a plan now. If they get a chance to use it, they will be successful.
The Democrats sure waited a long time to prosececute Trump with that. Now the result of that trial will be after the election. Thank Democrats for saving Trump from jail.
What’re you talking about? Democrats were sharply criticizing Garland for not bringing charges sooner, and still are. The Justice Department is independent, not an arm of the presidency.
And, it took Garland time to bring a case because you can’t put together a case against the previous president of the US in a day. You only have one shot at a prosecution like that, and it needs to be flawless. It’s like the phrase “when you swing at the King, you better not miss”. It takes time to build the necessary case.
Blame the supreme court instead for being lazy and in Trump’s pocket.
The American fascist party was born prematurely. They’ve spent the last eight years incubating within the Republican party and are ready to go mask-off now.
Bush was way worse than Trump.
Aside from saying some real dumb shit Trumps presidency was a lot milder than expected.
I would agree with you, except for COVID. That shit was nuts. Trump would have easily won re-election if he just let scientists make decisions.
Edit: Thinking about it more, you’re right. War and occupation directly and indirectly claimed the lives of about a half-million Iraqis from 2003 to 2011
There also wasn’t any hurricane katrina style fiascos under Trump, as well as Trump deciding not to invade Venezuela, which was a surprise. The Syria shit wasn’t great, but it was NOTHING like Iraq.
God the bar is set so fucking low it’s embarrassing.
He pulled out of Afghanistan which was amazing.
Trump’s biggest fail was when he drone striked Iranian general Suleimani at the request of Israel. But luckily Iran didn’t decide to escalate it so we didn’t get a big war back then.
Biden pulled out of Afghanistan, not Trump.
Trump’s influence on the Supreme Court has been utterly disastrous for the US and leftist causes
You can thank the Democratic judge for refusing to step down under Obama so he could have appointed a new one.
Nobody thought Trump was going to win until too late. RBG thought the next president would also be a Democrat.
But she was also naive and thought that she should do her job as long as possible, and that Republicans could be reasoned with. The court really needs a max age.
Regardless, this is a bit moot, since Trump had 3 total SCOTUS picks. RBG’s seat was just one.
And once again, we can thank the DNC for sabotaging Bernie to make Hillary the candidate.
Even better if we just go back to Obama who had all power and was asked to codify abortion rights, and then didn’t. Because it’s a great tool to keep people voting Democrat.
I hope you’re right. It went about how I thought it would go last time. That insurrection thing threw me though. And all the court cases coming after trump, as well as that project 2025 thing, this time seems different to me.
If the Dems were serious about prosecuting him he wouldn’t get bailed out at the last second every time.
Also Dems purposely delayed the inserruction case now the verdict won’t be until after the election. Real convenient now nothing can stop Trump except voting for Biden.
I have been really annoyed with the protest vote arguments because our system is horseshit and we still have to play within it, but there is no disagreeing with this. I’ll be voting a lot of these useless assholes back in this time as a last-ditch effort, but a purge of the bad actors is long in order. I lost faith in our institutions with Trump in charge, but when it’s come down to punishing that hunk of offal, nothing the dems have done has brought that faith back.
To be honest though, even if things in that situation were going better, I’d still be unconvinced. Outside said institutions, I truly believe that we are not participating in a society, we haven’t been for decades, and that’s got nothing to do with the government.
If that’s actually their game plan, then that’s the most idiotic game plan I’ve ever seen and it is definitely going to put trump back in the White House.
They can’t seriously be that stupid though. Can they?
I think it could be possible that this is the game plan they’re going with because it’s lazy and won’t piss off any donors, which doing things actual leftists want would definitely do.
The DNC screwed over Bernie in 2016 to make sure a real progressives wouldn’t win. They shoved in Hillary which was (and is) so bad she lost to Trump 1.
The Clintons actually suggested Trump to run thinking he’d be such a pathetic opponent that it would land them an easy victory.
Make no mistake, the Democrats prefer having Trump win over someone that could actually impose change.
Trump is their perfect enemy because they can keep running trash candidates and having them win solely on “not Trump”.
Democrat voters screwed over Bernie, not the DNC. Bernie was on every single ballot. All people would have had to do is actually get off of their pampered asses and go vote for him. They didn’t. She won. We got Trump as a result.
Yeah, if I recall correctly it was the 2020 primary where Bernie got most supremely ratfucked.
A huge propaganda campaign from the elites that control the DNC does wonders.
I mean, this is the party of the pied piper strategy.
They’re not stupid. They’re pro-corporatists. They can’t prosecute Trump without harming some other rich fucks in the process. When Trump said he’d have to have a fire sale to make the bond amount that wasn’t a complaint it was a threat. Commercial real estate is already being propped up by fake numbers. If Trumps properties went up for sale it would blow that whole thing up. That’s why he’s being protected.
Pro-corporatism has no way of addressing fascism. And the Democrats are a pro-corporate party.
What an evil stupid system. People wonder why there’s voter apathy among leftists. This is why.
What a charmed life you must lead. I wasn’t really affected by his policies either but have you noticed the way things have been turning for the people his goons have been targeting since the chuds became empowered?
It is imperative that we bury the GOP first. Then, we absolutely can and should go knives out on Team Blue™️. I don’t disagree that Biden needs to go, and that most of the Democrats are obstacles at best to truly repairing our long-dead society. Hell, don’t just vote, actually fucking run for office, start somewhere where you aren’t so completely outgunned by the moneyed interests but you also actually make a difference. But for now, we need to take down the more immediate threat.
Throw rocks at me for saying it, but the Dems’ fecklessness is our fault too, to an extent. The problem is complacency when the pendulum appears to have swung in our direction, like “yeah we got the job done!* Let’s have pizza and congratulate ourselves and go back home!” Fortunately, it may finally no longer be the case. But for christ’s sake, can we not throw the baby out with the bathwater? The upcoming, inevitable fight will be less harrowing if we can keep from actively making the battlefield more hazardous, which absolutely will happen with a Trump win.
*christ, I remember when Obama was elected and there was a false prospect of healthcare reform, Newsweek published a rather insulting cover saying, “we are all socialists now”, simultaneously feeding the right’s paranoia and patronizing the left in such an insulting way
You’re not going to bury the GOP by voting Democrat. You will just worsen the situation.
Biden is continuing to build the wall, jailed twice as many immigrants as Trump, is committing Genocide, and so much more. Biden is just a GOP candidate with D in front of his name. He is one of the biggest establishment democrats who has built his career on empowering the elites.
Fine. Trump ‘24 then. Whatever, he’ll fix it.
Probably not. But maybe the moderate and liberal voters will finally wake the fuck up and realize they need to compromise with leftists or progressives if they want to win elections.
Ehh, I think it’s more that we have to be a better electorate and put better people in office in the first place, even (and especially) when there is a dem majority. Like I said, we have had the tendency to get complacent when that’s the case. It also doesn’t help that, for a long time, we didn’t have a cohesive message—when Occupy was happening, everyone’s demands were all over the damn place and just came off as diffuse and disorganized. But like I also said, it sounds like we’re getting better about it, though I don’t know whether that’s because this place really does lean heavily left, not reflecting the population at large. That may not be such a bad thing though, this place could be a good place for planning action.
I don’t disagree that the democrats are, at best, milquetoast, feckless do-nothings, but fighting everyone at once seems like it’s going to be an abject disaster with any victories being pyrrhic, if existent at all. I hope I’m wrong. I just don’t want my daughter, anyone’s daughter, to become a brood mare for the dominionist state.
Who’s “we”? I know exactly which race and generation is to blame for all this pro-corporate trash that keeps making it’s way through the Democratic primaries. And even people who say “Well more of you show up to the primaries!” argue that liberal and moderate voters won’t vote for progressive or leftist candidates or even a liberal or moderate candidate who dares materially compromise with progressive or leftist policy. So we’ll win the primary only to lose the general.
Doubt. They’ll just bury in sand and go even farther/faster right
Then we’re fucked anyway. Let’s get it overwith.
Oh boy. How about the recent fumble of electoral reform by the Liberal party in Canada eh?
“Oopsie poopsie, now you HAVE TO vote for us or yous gets the conservatives again! LOL!”
Haha bro don’t even get me started on that shit. Boils my blood.
Pass electoral reform in your state first, then you can vote third party with zero chance of a spoiler effect.
Check out a video on First Past the Post voting if you’d like to learn more.