- cross-posted to:
- news@lemmy.world
- progressivepolitics@lemmy.world
- cross-posted to:
- news@lemmy.world
- progressivepolitics@lemmy.world
cross-posted from: https://lemmy.world/post/15001340
“Such an invasion could lead to horrific massacres and raise scenarios of a second Nakba,” the Gaza-based Palestinian Center for Human Rights said recently. “After 200 days of horrific genocidal acts in Gaza, the real objectives of the attack are the continuation of the 76-year-long ongoing Nakba and the erasure and genocidal destruction of the Palestinian people in Gaza. Israel is laying the groundwork to fulfill its settler-colonial plan of colonizing Gaza.”
Human rights defenders have warned that Israel may ultimately seek to ethnically cleanse as many Palestinians as possible from Gaza.
Common Dreams can be a little much some times. Here’s Politico’s take which is a bit more dry.
Some important notes though. Aid groups absolutely dispute that there’s an ability to fit everyone in the designated area; feed the people that can fit; and that Israel will allow everyone who wants to evacuate to do so in good faith.
So there are very good objections to this plan. If the IDF let people pass without mass arrests or randomly deciding to shoot at the people crossing their lines then that would be good. But it has not been the norm. Which brings us to the next problem. The IDF has behaved so criminally, the people of Gaza do not trust their announcements of where to go for safety.
At this point the only correct answer is an immediate ceasefire. The removal of all IDF troops from Gaza. And an international war crimes tribunal.
Only correct answer is an multi-national subjugation force to kill the IDF forces in Gaza, then push into Israel and take the current government into custody to be put on Nuremberg-style trials while setting up an interim government in Israel.
Yeah, I’m not a fan of Netanyahu’s war crimes, but that’s something that’s never going to happen. Far more likely is evidence continues to go to the ICC and arrest warrants rain from the skies. Then there’s a bunch of conservative Israelis who are stuck in Israel or Russia/China aligned countries. And they have to live with the knowledge that they are the new low hanging political piñata for every American president who needs a polling bump.
yeah, the ICC doing anything/being able to hold anyone accountable is just as likely as a multinational subjugation force.
The ICC has actually managed it before though.
against people where the biggest western powers are bending over backwards to do everything to protect them?
and actually had proper, punishing sentences?
Oh no there are definitely novel parts to this. That’s what makes it so interesting. And it’s still way more likely than a multi national coalition going there without the UN.
If there is some sort of cease fire, the UN needs to bring in a Cyprus style peace keeping force to physically stand between Israel and Palestine for a generation (or probably more).
Anything less will just lead to the same repeated outbursts of violence that we’ve seen for the past 70 years.
Not familiar with crypus peacekeeping. Got any info to share?
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Nations_Peacekeeping_Force_in_Cyprus
As I said, it’s not a quick fix, but is has managed to keep the Greeks and Turks from killing each other there since the 1960s.
Gaza has like at least five years of martial law in its future during reconstruction.
Hamas is charge of the time table.
So more illegal occupation? You might get Hamas. You might.
But you are ensuring another organization rises to replace them.
Fine. Let them be replaced in due course by a legitimate form of government that is fairly elected. Sounds great to me.
You know I don’t see Gaza as an illegal occupation. I did before October 7th. I find the settlements in the West Bank to be still illegal.
In my learned opinion though, after October 7, Israel has good and just cause to go to war to eliminate Hamas, the de facto government-in-hiding of Gaza, and its tunnel network. Hamas is not a legitimate government and can simply no longer remain in charge, dead or alive. I don’t see anything illegal about occupation, the goal of which is to achieve that end, because n so far as Gaza ever was a state under Hamas, it is now a collapsed state with no effective government, legitimate or otherwise. It’s a rump state. Irredeemable territory. And, in that case, it’s the neighbor’s duty to step in, establish law and order, and govern temporarily, legitimately and equitably.
Martial law is a legitimate form of interim government during a transition from hot war to reconstruction, before a provisional government of local stakeholders can decide how to form and choose a new government. No government run by the whims of a few religious people will ever be legitimate.
Hamas was fairly elected. Israel and the US were the ones that interfered because they didn’t like Hamas trying to go legitimate.
And no, just no. This is not Just War Theory. In Just War Theory you don’t carpet bomb residential areas. You don’t make the Hospitals main targets and you certainly don’t repeatedly attack and kill plainly marked journalists standing in the open. You cannot commit war crimes and then claim it falls under Just War Theory. That’s the complete opposite of that theory.
And it’s a collapsed state because Israel ensured that, by preventing the legitimate winners of the election from taking power peacefully, by blockading them when the people who voted for them rightfully put them in power anyways, and by repeatedly attacking them over the last couple decades, claiming any government official was a terrorist including civil servants running the basic infrastructure of the region. You cannot punch your neighbor in the face, and then move into his home on the theory that he’s in the hospital now and call it a moral argument.
What a joke. Hamas was elected, after telling people not to participate in the elections. They die take power and immediately used it to cancel all future elections.
They collapsed as their own state. Hamas corrupted everything it touched. They turned every institutiom into instrumentalities of international terrorism. They robbed the country of its whatever resources and wealth it had and used the money to launch suicide bombings and rocket attacks and to dig the tunnels which they use to smuggle fighters and rocket launching systems. Hamas big wigs are hiding under ground or living in Qatar with lavish wealth while their families are in Gaza starving.
All they had to do was reject violent extremism at any turn, and they couldn’t do it. These are deranged fucking worthless people and nobody is going to miss Hamas. Anyone that does should join them.
Pan Islamist terrorists don’t get to “go legit” and have their own state. Never going to happen.
Okay. I’ll just repeat myself too.
Hasbara
No cause exists that can justify ejecting people in mass from there homes.
I agree. Nobody should be getting forced to go anywhere. In a “normal” war humanitarian routes would be established along with Internally Displaced People camps run to the UN standards. Those routes would be inviolate except for checkpoints to search people, and every stray round impacting near them would result in a full investigation. Aid would be flooding these camps and the entire zone behind the front lines. People would be encouraged but not required to leave within a distinct timeline.
The IDF has not done that. They’ve basically done the opposite of that. They want to force people to leave the area with the aid, into a camp that mathematically cannot meet UN standards. They’ve already said they’re going to detain all men attempting to leave the area. And they routinely fire into their own humanitarian corridors. This entire operation is a war crime from the top down to the sergeants.