And that is in the current media landscape, where the Dems were still defending Israel and downplaying their actions. If they went out to go full documentation, full coverage about war crimes, full rhetoric about who Netanyahu, Ben Gvir, Likud and the other fascists really are…
And we now see the worst yet to come with the invasion of Rafah. The only way Biden and the Dems can salvage this, is if they go 180° now. Otherwise they will just keep losing face to their base, as more and more atrocities become public.
So 37% thinking he is in the right balance or too favourable to Palestinians. Leaving 62% who are either convinced that Israel is getting too much favours from the US, or who don’t know, which means they are susceptible to changing their position once they get the actual picture of what is going on. Because there is no way that people will switch to become more favourable of Israel now, as the Bodies pile up even higher.
And think of the potential outcomes: If Biden continues to support Israel he risks them going completely out of their way with genocide and by November he has to justify US taxpayer money having killed hundreds of thousands of people, of which there were many American citizens in particular aid workers.
If Biden stops supporting Israel and only provide replenishment for Iron Dome and Missile intercepting systems, Israel would have to retreat and start facing justice at the ICC. But there is no existential threat to them.
which means they are susceptible to changing their position once they get the actual picture of what is going on.
I think you overestimate the US electorate’s interest in foreign affairs. Or the US electorate’s interest in politics in general. Some would flip, probably. But I doubt it would be as quick or as total as many here seem to think. It certainly wouldn’t deliver the election to Biden in a landslide.
Because there is no way that people will switch to become more favourable of Israel now, as the Bodies pile up even higher.
Let me relay to you a story, that I hope will shed some light on my position in opposition to that assertion. I have a friend, very liberal, as all my close friends are. His dad is, likewise, very liberal. On every major policy issue I’ve discussed with him, he’s been decidedly left-leaning. Public assistance, taxation, infrastructure, education, foreign affairs.
Now, this was waaaay before the Russo-Ukraine War, so Russia was still just some weird far-off place with some ex-KGB guy at the head. No one was thinking anything more of it, but the issue of Russia and recent history and trivia came up, and I started talking about the Moscow Theatre Crisis (or maybe it was the Beslan Siege? either way), making some dark jokes about, you know, 40 terrorists, 100 hostages, 140 bodybags, mission accomplished, in a smarmy kind of way. We got to discussing it seriously, and he up and says that killing the hostages to get at the hostage-takers showed a ‘strong leader’.
He was a well-educated guy. Went to college, had a technical job in his field. Reasonably sensitive, fairly liberal, pro-feminist, proud of his very independent daughter, anti-imperialist (when Iraq and Afghanistan were still on everyone’s minds), pro-LGBT, very friendly and welcoming, a nerd with nerdy hobbies.
And he still said that showed a ‘strong leader’.
Now, the purpose of this isn’t to demonstrate some essential failing in my friend’s dad - he’s a very normal individual. But that’s just the thing - many of us in modern society (and certainly much worse in past societies) are socialized to glamorize the most gruesome displays of power, even those of us who would otherwise fall on the more liberal side of things. Those who do not spend significant amounts of time pondering the philosophical implications of politics (ie the vast majority of the active electorate, much less the general population) easily fall into this trap, because it’s so ingrained in our society.
If and when the general American population finds out more, many will turn against Israel - but a significant minority will take their brutality as a sign of strength. For the same reason that many in Israel who know the full story also take the brutality as a sign of strength.
If Biden stops supporting Israel and only provide replenishment for Iron Dome and Missile intercepting systems, Israel would have to retreat and start facing justice at the ICC. But there is no existential threat to them.
I’m in total support of that. Hell, I’m in support of removing aid for the Iron Dome and like systems. But I’m also well-aware that even if Biden changes nothing from this moment onward, it’s not worth intensifying the Palestinian genocide and starting a few new ones at home just to show the DNC what for.
https://news.gallup.com/poll/642695/majority-disapprove-israeli-action-gaza.aspx
https://www.middleeasteye.net/news/majority-us-democrats-believe-israel-committing-genocide-gaza-poll
And that is in the current media landscape, where the Dems were still defending Israel and downplaying their actions. If they went out to go full documentation, full coverage about war crimes, full rhetoric about who Netanyahu, Ben Gvir, Likud and the other fascists really are…
And we now see the worst yet to come with the invasion of Rafah. The only way Biden and the Dems can salvage this, is if they go 180° now. Otherwise they will just keep losing face to their base, as more and more atrocities become public.
God, I’ve already been over this - opposition to Israel’s current operation is not the same as support for removing aid
You can say that’s fucking stupid, and it is - but it doesn’t change facts.
So 37% thinking he is in the right balance or too favourable to Palestinians. Leaving 62% who are either convinced that Israel is getting too much favours from the US, or who don’t know, which means they are susceptible to changing their position once they get the actual picture of what is going on. Because there is no way that people will switch to become more favourable of Israel now, as the Bodies pile up even higher.
And think of the potential outcomes: If Biden continues to support Israel he risks them going completely out of their way with genocide and by November he has to justify US taxpayer money having killed hundreds of thousands of people, of which there were many American citizens in particular aid workers.
If Biden stops supporting Israel and only provide replenishment for Iron Dome and Missile intercepting systems, Israel would have to retreat and start facing justice at the ICC. But there is no existential threat to them.
I think you overestimate the US electorate’s interest in foreign affairs. Or the US electorate’s interest in politics in general. Some would flip, probably. But I doubt it would be as quick or as total as many here seem to think. It certainly wouldn’t deliver the election to Biden in a landslide.
Let me relay to you a story, that I hope will shed some light on my position in opposition to that assertion. I have a friend, very liberal, as all my close friends are. His dad is, likewise, very liberal. On every major policy issue I’ve discussed with him, he’s been decidedly left-leaning. Public assistance, taxation, infrastructure, education, foreign affairs.
Now, this was waaaay before the Russo-Ukraine War, so Russia was still just some weird far-off place with some ex-KGB guy at the head. No one was thinking anything more of it, but the issue of Russia and recent history and trivia came up, and I started talking about the Moscow Theatre Crisis (or maybe it was the Beslan Siege? either way), making some dark jokes about, you know, 40 terrorists, 100 hostages, 140 bodybags, mission accomplished, in a smarmy kind of way. We got to discussing it seriously, and he up and says that killing the hostages to get at the hostage-takers showed a ‘strong leader’.
He was a well-educated guy. Went to college, had a technical job in his field. Reasonably sensitive, fairly liberal, pro-feminist, proud of his very independent daughter, anti-imperialist (when Iraq and Afghanistan were still on everyone’s minds), pro-LGBT, very friendly and welcoming, a nerd with nerdy hobbies.
And he still said that showed a ‘strong leader’.
Now, the purpose of this isn’t to demonstrate some essential failing in my friend’s dad - he’s a very normal individual. But that’s just the thing - many of us in modern society (and certainly much worse in past societies) are socialized to glamorize the most gruesome displays of power, even those of us who would otherwise fall on the more liberal side of things. Those who do not spend significant amounts of time pondering the philosophical implications of politics (ie the vast majority of the active electorate, much less the general population) easily fall into this trap, because it’s so ingrained in our society.
If and when the general American population finds out more, many will turn against Israel - but a significant minority will take their brutality as a sign of strength. For the same reason that many in Israel who know the full story also take the brutality as a sign of strength.
I’m in total support of that. Hell, I’m in support of removing aid for the Iron Dome and like systems. But I’m also well-aware that even if Biden changes nothing from this moment onward, it’s not worth intensifying the Palestinian genocide and starting a few new ones at home just to show the DNC what for.