White is not the only high-level cyclist to die in Colorado in recent years. In 2020, Clif Pro Team racer Ben Sonntag was killed by a driver while on a training ride outside Durango. That driver was sentenced to serve jail time in late 2021. In 2021, U.S. masters champion Gwen Inglis was killed by a driver outside Lakewood, Colorado.
Do you even know what you’re arguing about?
I’ll restart this thread where it started. It’s poor judgement to ride your bike along roads where cars are driving by.
Keep digging you’re never going to manage to figure out how to twist things into you being right.
I’ll restate the obvious: there are no public places where cars aren’t.
You claim “poor judgment” while ignoring that even driving a car is more dangerous than cycling. I guess everyone, in your world, is stupid for doing dangerous things, even if that means simply standing on grass that happens to be close enough for a car to plow them over.
I’m not trying to twist anything. There is no conspiracy here. Plain as day, you are blaming victims when you should be blaming careless driving.
In Toronto, we have WALLS protecting bike lanes, and drivers STILL manage to drive over them.. In Vancouver (and Toronto), protected, separated bike paths are invaded by cars, causing injury to cyclists.
Are you still going to argue that it’s the cyclist’s fault for any of this?
I can blame both, because both parties made a decision to do something dangerous. Be accountable for your actions. Clearly you don’t want to be. Sounds familiar.
Nonsense. Cycling isn’t dangerous, including cycling on the road, unless it’s a poorly maintained road.
People who don’t know how to drive their motor vehicle are dangerous, and consistently so. The only difference is that their inability to drive kills tens of thousands of people a year, including themselves and their family.
And there’s no way to predict whether someone in a car is going to cross a lane, drive off a road, maybe crash into the front of your home, or through a bus stop, or drive through a barber shop.
By sheer matter of fact, ANYWHERE you find drivers, you have danger.
The question is, why blame the victims of these drivers? You want so badly to shift the blame onto anyone but the person actually responsible for causing an accident.
I go above and beyond my duty as a driver, cyclist, and pedestrian. Having this perspective gives me every right to criticize drivers, because drivers are the problem most of the time. And when cyclists are at fault for causing an accident, I blame them, too.
Hey can you link a couple more articles about people getting hit while on bikes? I think it really helps drive your point forward about how safe cycling on a road is. You keep talking about how safe cycling on roads is while simultaneously ignoring that it’s the cars on the road that makes cycling on roads unsafe. You keep talking about how unsafe cars are, about how reckless and unsafe the drivers are, while also claiming that cycling near vehicles is perfectly safe.
The cognitive dissonance is strong with you.
Yes, very safe when drivers are not speeding, not dangerously passing, and paying attention.
In other words, when drivers are driving like they are expected to, there’s no conflict.
What’s so hard to understand?
Oh, I know. To you, it doesn’t matter how safe cycling is, because when a driver decides to be an inattentive moron and kills someone, you’ll blame cyclist and pedestrians anyway.
What’s your agenda? Do you work in the auto industry?
Key word is WHEN. Often times they aren’t. That’s like saying things are safe until they aren’t. Accidents happen because people do dumb things. You seem to have a lot of trouble accepting this, which is the source of your issue. The general public has already proven, and continues to prove how unsafe and how irresponsible they are, especially in cars. Your inability to accept this is hilarious.
Except that isn’t always the case. You have to consider the times when they aren’t driving like you expect. Again, you can’t decipher between expectations and reality. You’re basing the safety of cycling on expectations, not reality.
You tell me. You’re the one struggling with this concept, not me. I’ve already acknowledged how unsafe vehicles are, how unsafe people are. You keep arguing with me telling me how unsafe cars are, how unsafe drivers are, yet you can’t piece together the fact that cycling around cars is therefore unsafe.
It’s just logic dude. Cars = unsafe, therefore cycling near cars is unsafe. No amount of manipulating of statistics is going to change this.
Then, you keep arguing with me talking about how cyclists have no alternative. Well, I don’t really care to be honest. That isn’t my problem to figure out. Just because you feel like you have no alternative, isn’t a very good reason to keep risking you life just so you can joy ride around town for funzies. With that said, if you continue to do so, no one is really going to care. If you get hit by a car that is ultimately your problem, and the person that hit you, not mine.
Go ride around your bike all you want. Just accept the fact that it’s dangerous to do so around moving cars, and that you’re taking a risk that you could otherwise avoid by simply NOT cycling around cars. If you can’t figure out where to go where there aren’t cars then that’s a YOU problem. The risk profile doesn’t change just because you don’t feel like accepting it. There are plenty of alternatives you’re just too stubborn and entitled to consider them. Just don’t be surprised when you get hit by a car.
Now we’re getting somewhere! Up until this point, you’ve assigned those “dumb things” to the people not driving cars. But they aren’t “accidents” when a driver is speeding, making dangerous passes, or not paying attention. That’s negligence causing bodily harm and/or homicide. Real crimes with real consequences.
Getting hit by a motorist doing dumb things isn’t a crime, it’s a result of a crime. That person is the victim.
You haven’t acknowledged this. You’ve only assigned blame to the victim.
We expect planes to not fall out of the sky, yet nobody blames someone for getting hit by a falling plane.
Cycling is safer than driving. This is reality. The times when it is not safe (but still SAFER than driving) it’s very often because of people in cars. That’s a fact. You can choose to use a more dangerous form of transportation, like a car, but don’t act like cycling is the more dangerous of the two options.
Seriously, as I’ve already illustrated quite a few times already, it’s not about “cycling around cars”, but simply being around cars that puts EVERYONE at risk. Standing, walking, watching TV in your home, getting a hair cut, waiting for a bus… every action near cars has the potential to be dangerous because of the cars, not the action!
Your solution punishes victims, rather than address the cause.
This thread had run its course. Good luck with everything.
The only point you’ve made through all of your rambling is that you lack the ability to assess risk. Comparing airplanes falling out of the sky to getting hit by a car while on a road just shows your lack of ability.
There is definitely one thing you’re right about, which is that continuing this conversation is a complete waste of time. You’ll forever be the person who is too blind to see what is in front of them.
No, my solution avoids getting hit by cars. You’re just too blind to see it.
So then use better judgement and stop doing things near cars. Cycling would be an obvious one. Building sand castles next to a road is also a bad idea. You’re the type that would build sand castles next to roads.