Explanations/etymology also appreciated!
For Joe Shmoe, it means a very average or below average person. It’s a derivation of the practice of using “shm-” to dismiss something (eg “Practice shmactice. We’re already perfect”).
And “John Smith” is meant to be the most average name or person imaginable, so they have the “most common” (citation needed) first and last name as well.
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In Germany there is “Max Mustermann”, which basically translates to Max Template-man. It’s the default German name used for templates of official documents like passports and such.
Don’t forget his wife, Erika Mustermann, geb. (née) Gabler. She’s usually the one used for passports these days. I think there’s a whole Mustermann family living in these templates.
Isn’t it Erika Musterfrau?
Sometimes, but I mostly see her name as Mustermann.
In German there are also derogatory uses for the forenames “Kevin” and “Otto” for example. Often used to depict not well educated persons that have made extremely stupid decisions/choices.
Or for historical context: “der Deutsche Michel” - “the German Michael “
Don’t forget Otto Normalverbraucher. Nobody cares about Otto Normalverbraucher.
spoiled all the fun :)
In Arabic its “فلان الفلاني" “fulan al-fulany”, which roughly translates to “someone from some family”
Japan, you usually use “Taro Tanaka” as the goto placeholder name. Tanaka is a very common surname here and it’s super easy to write as well (田中). Sato is actually the most common but also a lot harder to write (佐藤). Tanaka is also a very “working class” name, it litearlly means “in the rice field” and most likely comes from families with a background of rice farmers. Taro also a very common given name; there have been quite a few Taro Tanakas throughout history despite being the placeholder name on most forms and the like. Taro, incidentally means “Big/Strong Son”.
I am not sure offhand of a female equilvalent, it’s usually Taro as the placeholder.
Along with Tanaka, Yamada (山田) is also often used as a placeholder surname. It’s a comparably common name that’s also simple to read and write.
As for female placeholder given names, IMO the closest equivalent to Taro would probably be Hanako (花子). I’ve seen adverts that show sample credit cards or forms bearing these names.
For example, an ad for a Toyota financing promotion might feature the name Toyota Taro on the sample application form. Or in a Mitsubishi UFJ credit card ad, the happy-looking lady in the ad will be using a credit card that bears the name Mitsubishi Hanako.
Not to stifle further discussion, but this Wikipedia page has a wealth of examples
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_placeholder_names_by_language
Amazing, Ive been learning German for 8 years and just had a great laugh!
Hm, well about 40% of our population is named Nguyễn. I don’t think there’s an equivalent expression, but I’d choose Anh Nguyễn. In addition to being a name for both genders, ‘Anh’ just means something like ‘sir’ or ‘older brother’.
In the UK it is Joe Bloggs
Some others in the Anglosphere:
Fred Bloggs - no idea where it’s from. Related to “bog” as in bog standard maybe?
Tom, Dick and Harry - is ages old. Even as far back as Shakespeare you can see the triplet evolving. “Tom, Dicke, and Francis” : Henry IV, Part I
I’ve always heard it as Joe Bloggs. The Bloggs bot is believed to be a derivation of bloke
Australian here, Joe Bloggs is very common here.
In the Netherlands there’s “Jan Modaal”, modaal (modal) referring the most commonly occurring value in or peak of a distribution. This name is used often when representing the experience of the most average Dutchman.
It’s especially often used in financial discussions and journalism, like “owning a house is getting further out of reach for Jan Modaal.”
Which correlates nicely with the English expression “your average Joe”!
We also have the slur of “sjonnie en anita” when talking about lower class, anti social people, “sjonnie” being the man and “anita” the woman. Both are very common names in older generations, less common in younger generations.
Would Jan Lul be relevant to this discussion?
Ingrid en Henk, too, for the run of they mill boomer stereotype
We have the phrase ‘every Tom, Dick and Harry’ which is like that (UK)
If we’re talking about a generic person it’s usually Mr/s Smith or Mr/s Jones (near Wales)
In Australia we have Joe Bloggs, but it sounds English. Do you have him in England?
Yup, he gets everywhere
In Vietnam, I think it’s just most names 😂. Anh Nguyen is probably a good example. Most Vietnamese have the last name Nguyen. The national naming conventions rival that of religious families in the west. Think, Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John. Anh, An, Thanh, and Minh. Women are the same, but named after things considered beautiful, Tuyet, Hong, Pham, Van.
Funny enough, many names aren’t always gendered, so I’ve met a decent amount of couples with the same first and last names. An Thi Nguyen, and An Van Nguyen is a couple that comes to mind. I dont have to worry about doxxing, since I bet that exists over 1000x here.
Germany uses Max/Erika Mustermann – literally Sampleman. It’s used for example on official sample pictures of our IDs. Some authorities in erlin have startet to use the gender neutral name Manu Mustermann.
That’s the official version, but at least when I talk about some average dude it’s way too long and artificial, I don’t think the name Mustermann actually exists.
When I think of the most common name to use in casual conversation, I’d probably go for Müller (maybe Peter? Though the first name is probably heavily generation-dependent).
In older publication you may alse find references to “der deutsche Michel” (the german Michel, short for Michael) as a somewhat condescending reference to the average citizen who is very hesitant to adopt new concepts and tech and not always able or willing to understand complex concepts. Often used to remark that a product/idea will not have a chance on the market because “der deutsche Michel” doesn’t see the pointor would never pick it up.
Haven’t seen that in a while though, I guess Germans have become more open to new stuff :)
also “Otto Normalverbraucher”
Sweden: Svensson, although the most common surname is Andersson.
Specifically for Gothenburg - Glenn “everybody is called Glenn in Gothenburg”, or older use - Kålle (male) and Ada (female). Not used that often.
In the UK for a random guy it’s usually Joe Bloggs.
In Norway we have “Ola Nordmann” and “Kari Nordmann”. Ola and Kari are pretty common and generic names. Nordmann literally means Norwegian, but can also be used as a last name.
