I’m talking about this sort of thing. Like clearly I wouldn’t want someone to see that on my phone in the office or when I’m sat on a bus.
However there seems be a lot of these that aren’t filtered out by nsfw settings, when a similar picture of a woman would be, so it seems this is a deliberate feature I might not be understanding.
Discuss.
As a huge Anime fan, with some catching up to do, I’ve blocked every anime adjacent community, because NSFW filtering isn’t applied as strictly as I would prefer, on the Anime communities here.
I enjoy a good sexually charged image as much as the next person, perhaps more.
But I scroll Lemmy in front of my impressionable daughter sometimes.
I would like to catch up on Anime recommendations, here.
But, to me, it’s just not worth the risk of suddenly needing to explain to my daughter why Faye Valentine’s parents didn’t love her enough to buy her full sets of clothing.
!anime@ani.social mostly posts key visuals and posters, episodes discussions, and news. Stuff you’d see in public.
The actual fanart side of things tends to stick to !anime_art@ani.social and !animepics@reddthat.com
the risk of suddenly needing to explain to my daughter why Faye Valentine’s parents didn’t love her enough to buy her full sets of clothing.
That wouldn’t be an issue if you’d fulfilled your duty as a parent and educated her on the classics.
That wouldn’t be an issue if you’d fulfilled your duty as a parent and educated her on the classics.
You have a point, actually.
Op, if my HR dept saw me scroll by that pic… It would be an annoying conversation. Like while I’ll agree, there’s no nudity… I would get in trouble. I’ve left some chatroom due to this… People just don’t understand that I don’t care but the folks cutting my checks will make a thing of it
Removed by mod
But when you suggest that it becomes a whole HR issue.
I prefer to frame it as an HR opportunity
I don’t understand the issue. Wouldn’t it be solved by the exact same solution?
As much as I like looking at pictures of anime girls I think they should be marked as NSFW if they are barely clothed.
I think if you wouldn’t use it as your wallpaper at work because it is inappropriate for work, that’s NSFW. So yeah at my job that would be NSFW.
Of course it should. NSFW doesn’t mean too hot to handle. It means, I don’t want coworkers or customers seeing this on my screen, as a matter of professionalism.
I feel like the Internet needs more tags:
- Explicit (rude language, nudity, etc)
- Porn (nsfw legacy tag)
- Violence
- Not safe for life
Something like that.
These aren’t even enough.
The tag for this particular problem would be something like “mildly suggestive” because it’s literally just skin that some people don’t want to see.
Yeah, I agree. I do sort of understand op’s consternation. I don’t browse Lemmy on my work PC, but sometimes on lunch or in public I pull it up on my phone on All communities and I’m suddenly conscious that everyone beside me can see the “sfw” furry and anime art that I scroll past.
However, that’s kinda my fault. I don’t want to ban those communities because I like that stuff. It’s just a little odd that we call it sfw when, to be honest, I have a hard time picturing most work places where I live happy to see that on my desktop.
I wonder if Lemmy could easily do content warnings like on Mastodon. I don’t know if it’s part of the ActivityPub spec but it’s definitely a thing that’s been implemented elsewhere.
The answer to “is it part of the activityPub spec?” is more often than not a strong No.
I’ve seen sites that have something similar, including a “suggestive” tag for pics like OP’s.
Yeah, that would be great. Many instance admins already use CSAM classifier models on all incoming images. It’d be great if they could add additional models that could put meta tags on images automatically like “suggestive” and “gore” with the option for the poster to modify the tags just in case it was a false negative or positive. Like a lasagna getting gore, for example.
- Gross
I am of the opinion that there should be more granularity to NSFW than a simple binary.
I’m a fan of how e621 does things:
rating:s (safe)
rating:q (questionable)
rating:e (explicit,)
But I would add another:
rating:t (traumatic, known elsewhere as Not Safe For Life)
Call it “purity” and allow users to filter posts to allow or block any arbitrary combination of purity levels (wallhalla, formerly wallbase, does this if you want to see how it could work).
It would be great if everything could be classified in this way, but is it practically possible to apply a more complex system like this across instances, given that we struggle with the simpler NSFW tag?
The reason why people are struggling with one tag may also be exactly because it’s only one tag.
It’s difficult to categorize gray as black or white, after all.
Imo, the real issue is how not to go overboard, adding more and more tags, and keeping things easy to filter.
Perhaps. I’m not expert but I’m just not convinced you’d get good compliance across instances.
After all, even minimal non- compliance makes the whole thing pointless
Can’t the same be said about what we have right now, though?
No system is flawless, but you’d be surprised the lengths people will go to uphold the ones that work.
Moreover I don’t think these need to be on a single scale. Like, trauma isn’t “more” than pornographic, it’s just something completely different (ideally).
There can be a scale of safe to unsafe for a variety of reasons, and people might be able to filter what they see more proactively based on their own tolerances (and interests).
But then again complexity can be a deterrence. Tagging and cataloging can be a big content management problem and I think most want to do the simplest thing possible.
But maybe content advisory could be a crowd sourced effort, using a up/down ranking on explicit categories just like we can do on posts.
Makes sense to me.
There is https://github.com/LemmyNet/rfcs/pull/4 but lemmy devs aren’t responding for months.
Look, this whole thing is absurd like a Monty Python sketch, but much less funny.
Is this picture not safe for work…?
How about this one…?
And what about this photograph of an actual naked beaver I posted the other day…?
For me, all three could get me in trouble at work (because they clearly have nothing to do with the work I should be doing), and none of them would get me in trouble at the bus (though there’s plenty of other pictures in Lemmy I wouldn’t want to be caught watching in the bus to avoid embarrassing myself or others), but that’s me, and that’s why I don’t use lemmy at work and if I use it on the bus I use a different account and only on communities I’m subscribed to.
But deciding whether to watch these pictures or risk watching others like them at work or the bus is my responsibility, not lemmy’s, or the community moderators’, or their posters’.
If I’m worried about “not suitable for work” I should be old enough to work, which means I should have a minimum of self control and be responsible for my own actions.
If I’m caught at work or on the bus with an “unsuitable” image on my phone because I was browsing some site that might contain images of that kind I’m not going to blame that site, or whoever posted that image, and I’m not going to demand of them to adapt to my particular circumstances and mark, censor, or remove any content I might find unsuitable.
That’s my job, not theirs. They’re not my fucking nanny, and I shouldn’t need one.
Attempting to shift the blame for my own actions to the people providing me with this content (and for free, no less!) would be childish, petty, and disingenuous, to say the least.
That’s wonderful. But perception is everything. Could the HR lady walk past my desk, see me scrolling Lemmy and flipping through image after image of half nude cartoons? Is that still safe for work? I think you’ll find they feel the same about works of art in enough businesses that none of these images are safe for work. In an art gallery? Sure. In a dental office? Probably not.
How can we be in the Fediverse and still have to fucking repeat this over and over.
Curate your feed
This isn’t an algorithmic driven platform. If you want to see what you’ll like, you gotta be proactive. Complaining about anime pictures from an anime community is just dumb.
I curate my feed. However because of the lack of an algorithm I don’t get suggestions. This means that I (and likely others) scroll through the everything feed repeatedly.
But I’ll do you one better. Lemmy doesn’t prevent users under the age of 18 from joining so long as they are 13 or older (just like other platforms). There’s a reason that most if not all websites curate for NSFW content, and it’s to make what the public can view with or without an account safe for children who are likely visiting those sites. That’s the reason Facebook won’t let you post half nude photos publicly. It’s the reason Reddit has NSFW tags. You’re preaching to the choir as far as users curating their content. NSFW tagging is literally a tool to use to curate the content you see. If your argument is that posters have no responsibility for what content they post that’s just logically wrong. No laws work that way. It’s literally why platforms aren’t being held liable for the misinformation spread by their users. I’m not complaining about random anime lewds. I’m pointing out that they are not safe for work. So they should be labeled as such since that is the status quo for not safe for work content. In the same way that a lot of content related to the war in Ukraine and the conflict in Palestine are labeled that way.
If you’re gonna be stuck on what the user should be doing rather than treating all of these items the same as far as what they are then you’re gonna have a bad time because I’m not entertaining that. I curate my feed and I don’t scroll the Everything feed at work, but that doesn’t mean I think other users shouldn’t be able to.
I don’t think anyone in this thread is complaining about its existence on lemmy at all.
Some people are suggesting that it should be marked as NSFW. If you don’t want to use NSFW tagging, that’s great, you be you and turn it all off in your settings, but please don’t shout at people who do want to use the NSFW tagging to help them curate their feed.
If you disagree that this kind of image should be classified as NSFW because you want to use lemmy at work to view this kind of image but blur things that feature more explicit images, that’s fine. and you could express that calmly and positively, but shouting in the thread at people using a lemmy feature for its designed purpose seems like a really over the top reaction to me, particularly since the NSFW features are all completely optional for you.
Implicitly, there is only one solution of puritanical situations and that’s to curate you feed.
Is a post about how you should unionize NSFW in this strange argument? Who knows. Do you live somewhere that showing ankles is only made as a prurient interest? Good luck friend!
If you scroll though the all feed enough, you’re going to find plenty of things that aren’t socially acceptable in your own mind.
But I’d like the Not Suitable For Work feature to filter posts that are not suitable for work. It’s curation, just a different way to your preferred way. If you don’t want to use the NSFW features, just turn them off. No need to be cross about it. It’s in settings.
(Your point about ankles is badly made, in my view. I think you were arguing the point that because there’s no objective speed that separates slow from fast, there’s no difference between slow and fast, but that doesn’t make sense in the real world. It might be hard to judge sometimes, but that doesn’t mean I should be shouted at for advocating an opinion on voluntary speed limits!)
Doesn’t work though. I have blocked communities that produce a lot of nsfw material but they keep popping up It’s wackamole
That’s entirely my whole point!
Lemmy has no way of knowing that. Moderators have no way of knowing that.
The only one capable of deciding what is suitable for your current specific environment is you!
It’s impossible to define a one size fits all NSFW tag, and it shouldn’t be up to the content provider to do so.
What to browse and when is and should be entirely the responsibility of the user accessing the content.
If you get caught browsing pictures that are unsuitable for whatever your current environment is, that’s on you for browsing a site that might have those pictures, and on no one else.
Accept your responsibility and don’t try to switch the blame.
Then nothing here on Lemmy should have an NSFW tag at all. But you know that doesn’t work. Because you can have a feed that’s completely fine and then scroll randomly and find a bunch of porn posts back to back. If you are posting content to a platform you are responsible for that content and what it shows. That’s literally why we have any tags.
This is like arguing that because it’s legal to show graphic content of war or similar on the news it should be allowed with no warning on any website. There’s underaged people everywhere on the internet. Sites that have graphic content as the main content censor accordingly. Why is Lemmy any different?
Then nothing here on Lemmy should have an NSFW tag at all.
Yes, exactly, now you’re getting it!
But you know that doesn’t work.
Oh, no, you actually don’t. You actually think you’re making a point. 😞
Because you can have a feed that’s completely fine and then scroll randomly and find a bunch of porn posts back to back.
Yeah, that’s how lemmy works. And the internet as a whole, really, except for small pockets of it.
Which is why it’s up to you to be aware of which sites are suitable for your current environment and which are not, and have the fucking self control and patience to wait until you’re in a suitable environment to browse the ones that aren’t.
If you are posting content to a platform you are responsible for that content and what it shows.
Sure, but I can’t be responsible for it being suitable or not in your current particular environment because there’s no objective way for me to know what is and isn’t suitable for you in your current specific circumstances.
“NSFW” is entirely subjective, it changes from person to person, from place to place, and from minute to minute depending on each user’s current circumstances, and expecting the poster to predict all of these possibilities is absurd, profoundly stupid, and outright disingenuous.
The only person who knows what might be suitable in YOUR current particular environment is YOU. It’s your fucking responsibility to know which sites might contain something that you’d consider unsuitable and avoid them until you’re in and environment where they’ll be suitable.
Don’t try to shift the blame and responsibility for YOUR lack of self control onto the people who’re giving you free content and who have no possible way of knowing that you might find it unsuitable at a certain specific point in space and time.
This is like arguing that because it’s legal to show graphic content of war or similar on the news it should be allowed with no warning on any website.
Yes. And it should be allowed, that’s what legal fucking means! (And even if it isn’t legal in your particular shithole there’s probably some other where it is, so good luck trying to enforce that.)
If some sites decide to not allow it, that’s perfectly fine (in lemmy’s particular case it’s up to the instances, I believe, and some might leave it to the communities), but it’s up to YOU to keep up with which ones do allow content you might consider unsuitable and which ones don’t.
Sure, some might give you warnings for specific kinds of content as a courtesy, but you really have no way of knowing if their particular definitions of “NSFW” match yours because it’s an entirely subjective issue in which it’s impossible to reach a consensus, so it’s still up to you to check and make sure.
There’s underaged people everywhere on the internet.
Well, that’s up to their legal guardians. I’m certainly not their nanny, and neither are the lemmy admins, moderators, or posters. You really seem obsessed with shifting your responsibilities onto unrelated third parties, you should probably have that looked at.
Sites that have graphic content as the main content censor accordingly.
No they don’t. Have you ever visited a porn site…?
Why is Lemmy any different?
It’s not, that’s the point. Which is why you should treat it like any other site that might contain “NSFW” content AND NOT FUCKING USE IT AT WORK! Fuck. It’s not fucking rocket surgery. 🤦♂️
I really want to know - what is this rocket surgery you keep referring to?
In any case, it shouldn’t be rocket surgery to understand the meaning here by the context alone even if you’ve never heard the phrases “it’s not rocket science” or “it’s not brain surgery”, but since we seem to be dealing with people, for lack of a better term, incapable of understanding the extremely simple concept of not browsing sites which might contain content unsuitable for work while at work, maybe it turns out that it is in fact as hard as rocket surgery for you lot, but in that case you should be asking your legal guardians, not random strangers on the internet.
Here’s what you need to do: navigate to your settings. Tick “show NSFW content” untick “blur NSFW content” and stop getting cross with those of us that use that feature. Simple. You choose your view, we choose ours. Let those of use who want to use the feature use it in peace. It’s YOUR responsibility to curate the feed you want, after all, as you keep angrily telling the rest of us.
If you’re scrolling through multiple photos of half nude anime girls back to back, i think you scrolled to much and should probably take a few hours break from lemmy.
I either turn it off completely or I leave it censored. I’m not saying there aren’t options. I’m saying a work environment would not consider it to be safe for work so yes it should be censored with a NSFW tag. The everything tab sometimes is perfectly fine and other times has back to back posts like that. I have no control over that. Neither does anyone else.
I have no control over that. Neither does anyone else.
YES YOU FUCKING DO! 🤦♂️
Is someone forcing you to browse the everything tab at gunpoint, or blackmailing you into browsing it‽
Because if not, you should have the self control to NOT FUCKING CLICK ON THE DAMN THING!
If you know it might contain anything unsuitable for your current environment, just fucking WAIT to browse it until you’re in an environment where it will be suitable!
It’s not fucking rocket surgery, for fuck’s sake, just have some fucking self control!
When I say I don’t have control over that, you know I mean that I am not in control of the feed or what is in it. Jesus. Can we not pretend that I am in control of what is posted to social media? Because you know this isn’t necessarily about self control. If it were news sites and broadcasters wouldn’t get in trouble for what they show.
Again: No one is forcing you to use the damn site at work. You know the site might have content unsuitable for your work, therefore you should know you shouldn’t be browsing it at work. You can wait and do something else. Anything else. That’s all the control you need.
And if you are unable to have this minimum amount of self control, then any consequences you suffer are entirely your fault and no one else’s. Don’t try to blame other people for your shortcomings.
news sites and broadcasters wouldn’t get in trouble for what they show
What in fuck’s name are you talking about? Other than probably you for being unable to stop browsing unsuitable content at work, who the fuck is getting in trouble?
Sounds like you want the NSFW tag removed altogether. I find it useful. You don’t. Change your settings to not blur NSFW posts and stop getting mad at people who use it.
You seem to be really cross about people wanting to use the completely optional Not Suitable For Work filtering and/or blurring features to help them curate their feed to make it Suitable For Work.
I think you need to realise that not everyone on the internet has the same priorities as you, and if you want to only browse lemmy away from work and you want to see things folks consider NSFW then that’s great - go ahead. Absolutely fine. Just tick the boxes on your settings and then it literally doesn’t affect you at all. You can hand-curate your feed to your heart’s content.
But please let those of us who want to use the optional NSFW feature use it in peace and please stop shouting at people who disagree with you.
We’re on a thread about whether certain pictures should be marked “NSFW” or not.
A subject on which, as is both obvious to anyone who doesn’t have their head up their own arse and evidenced by this very same thread, no agreement is possible. An objective demonstration of why this tagging nonsense not only doesn’t work, but can’t possibly ever work.
You might as well be discussing about whether it’s better to use the western horoscope or the Chinese one to decide which threads are “suitable for work”.
And I’m sorry, but this kind of wilful stupidly just fucking irks me to no end.
I don’t get your problem. You like to filter by community or whatever, and I like to use the NSFW filtering. We’re different. Why get cross about it?
Nice beaver!
I wouldn’t have guessed a beaver would sit on his tail like that. Like how did he move to get it under himself like that?
Maybe the miscommunication in this whole concept is the word “work”. What about at a restaurant or near family?
I think the “work” bit is a verbal crutch, what people want is a way to better scope their experience to content more appropriate for their current situation whatever it may be.
Sure, but that’s the user’s responsibility, not the content providers’.
It’s extremely simple: could this site contain something that would be unsuitable for your current environment…?
— Definitely not. — Great, browse away (as long as doing so isn’t unsuitable for some other reason, e.g. working, paying attention to your family, driving the car).
— Possibly, maybe, I don’t know. — Ok, now, pay attention, here’s the trick: DON’T FUCKING BROWSE IT. Wait until you’re in an environment where you’re sure it’ll be suitable. Browse something else. Have some fucking self control, for fuck’s sake.
You are the only one who can tell what is suitable for your current circumstances and what is not. Lemmy has no way of knowing that, the moderators have no way of knowing that, the posters have no way of knowing that.
It’s your responsibility, not ours.
NSFW tags would only make sense if they were set by the user, and then they’d be useless because they could only work once the user (and their company’s firewall) has already seen the content they didn’t want to see. By definition, they can’t work, unless everything is tagged.
You know what does work, though? Not browsing shit in circumstances where it might contain potentially unsuitable content. So do that, and let the admins, moderators, and posters be.
What you’re saying is that you don’t want to give users tools to curate their feeds, and your answer to them wanting those tools is for them not to view those feeds at all if they feel the content is unsafe. An interesting take. Where on the internet does that work?
Dude clearly doesn’t know he can tick “Show NSFW content” and untick “Blur NSFW content” and suddenly he has exactly the website he’s asking for. Very cross over other people’s use of the site for no reason.
I’ve had those disabled since the minute I got on lemmy, I just can’t abide censorship or, more importantly, wilful stupidly.
Censorship is where the government bans books and libraries etc because they disagree with the ideas in them. There’s real censorship going on in the USA just now. This isn’t censorship, it’s feed curation - just some folks wanting to not have scantily clad figures show up on their phone in their lunch break.
It’s not wilful stupidity, it’s wanting some good old random entertainment on a break at work without some colleague harassing you for an inappropriate image which you could have had filtered out if people who didn’t use the feature at all didn’t spend so much time arguing that the inappropriate image should be viewed by those who do.
Calm down a bit and let other people use lemmy how they like. It’s a free country. (apart from all the real life censorship, of course, and the lack of bodily autonomy women have in the USA), all that kind of stuff.
Summary: other people are different to you and live in a different context. Try not to be cross about this.
NSFW tags aren’t a way to curate one’s feed, they’re a waste of time.
What you consider suitable will vary depending on where you are and what time it is, and might be completely different than what other users consider suitable.
You want to curate your feeds?
You can have multiple accounts, in multiple instances.
You can subscribe to suitable communities and only browse ones you’re subscribed to.
You can block users, communities, and instances.
Most importantly, you can decide what to browse and when, and wait to browse feeds which might contain something unsuitable for your current circumstances until those circumstances have changed.
Can these tools be improved…? Sure!
Give me a way to choose between different sets of subscribed and I won’t need to have multiple accounts, for instance.
Hell, this might be one of the few situations in which current “AI” models could actually be useful… just have one trained on what you don’t want to see at specific times and places and use it as a browser extension to prevent you from seeing that content.
But tags aren’t going to help with that, because they’re entirely subjective, and only you know what you want tagged or not, and if you have to tag it yourself it’s already too late, you’ve already seen it (and so has your company’s firewall).
You’re a waste of time. Good day sir, ma’am, or theydy.
I would go to war for you, Sir.
When’s the last time you shaved your beaver? Ew.
Hey, that’s a perfectly fine beaver, I’ll have you know. Don’t you go besmirching it!
That beaver is fully clothed though. A naked mull rat would be another matter.
The heck is a mull rat??
You don’t know them? They are internet-famous.
Read up on them. Weird little fuckers.
Edit: oh damn! Guess that image is NSFW
Are they really mull rats or mole rats? Now, I’m questioning myself…
Haha, no, you’re absolutely right. I’m sorry, in German they are called Nacktmull.
It’s not censorship, it’s just tagging
It’s a fucking waste of everyone’s time, is what it is.
The definition of “safe for work” is entirely subjective and will vary from one user, place, and time to another.
The only ones with the information to decide whether to tag something as suitable or not are the users, and even our own opinion on what is and isn’t suitable will depend on where we are and what time it is.
There is no possible objective consensus on what to tag or not, and there can’t be, so tagging will never work for the vast majority of users.
Do you know what does work, though, with 0% chance of failure…?
If you aren’t 100% sure that a site won’t contain anything unsuitable for your current environment… DON’T FUCKING BROWSE IT!
It’s that easy! No tagging needed, no censorship, no nothing. No need to bother anyone else or demand of them to do the impossible and predict what you will consider suitable or not at a certain point in space and time.
Just have some patience, exercise some fucking self control and personal responsibility, and wait until you’re in a suitable place and time to browse the fucking site!
Everyone else manages this incredibly subjective confusing tag just fine . Weird
We’re in a fucking thread discussing whether certain drawings should or should not be “NSFW” (an entirely subjective question on which, obviously, no consensus can possibly be reached).
Y’all ain’t managing anything, fine or otherwise.
and I’m not going to demand of them to adapt to my particular circumstances
That’s literally exactly what you’re doing here.
Yes
Agree, if I scroll past it and someone looking over my shoulder is going to call me a weirdo, it should be NSFW.
I just want posts or communities to have category tags for me to block by tag. So I can block all anime and every non-English community.
I have nothing against them. They’re just not of interest to me and I don’t want them on my feed. Blocking a community is mostly useless because there are so many of them it’s like playing whack a mole.
I completely agree… Most of my block list are ‘moe’ communities, and it is only getting longer
There is a proposal to add Tags but devs aren’t really responding. https://github.com/LemmyNet/rfcs/pull/4
Which half?
NSFW is not safe for work, so if it wouldn’t fly at work… it should be marked.
You know damn well how NSFW is applied on the internet.
Clearly we have a different understanding, how do you apply Not Safe For Work?
I’ve often seen NSFW used as basically just “contains nudity”. You could have a woman in skimpy clothing shaking her everything in a manner clearly trying to evoke sexual thoughts, but because her nipples and genitalia are technically covered, it would get posted as “SFW”.
Sure, so you want a nudity/sex tag instead of a NSFW tag.
NSFW would be a superset of nudity.
Just because some people don’t know how to use NSFW doesn’t mean it means something else than “Not suited for work”. Anything that a colleague, boss etc could see that would result in awkwardness, “the talk”, is NSFW. Same thing for gore.
what if someone works in a sex shop? (asking for a friend) /s
Sure, sex workers, morticians, first responders, doctors, AI Gore artists are all interesting corner cases
NSFW to mean implies the content that wont get anyone in trouble or fired.
lmao is that artifical intelligence gore or Al Gore the politician
I definitely had to reread that a couple times lol
He is my muse.
Still NSFW (in that case, not enough nudity)
Anime girls are the most oppressed demographic 😔
Yes. 100%
I 100% would not want an image like that to pop up in front of a coworker. I’m on board with you, OP.
Yes.
The tag is Not Safe For Work. I’d say that if you were to look at this in most work places you’d probably be speaking to HR within the hour…
I wish there was strictly an amine tag so I could filter all that shit out like you can with nsfw. Blocked countless weirdass communities that randomly popup.
These are a few ways to get rid of them:
He’s proud!
Legend.
There is a proposal to add Tags but devs aren’t really moving it forward. https://github.com/LemmyNet/rfcs/pull/4
