After reading a bit about Usenet, it seems to me as if the whole Fediverse seems to be just a reinvention of Usenet.

What’s the big difference?

      • inspxtr@lemmy.world
        link
        fedilink
        arrow-up
        7
        ·
        1 year ago

        Yeah it felt like it, at least. The first difference about origin and era threw me off; people in general are not interested in it and would probably not list the facts like that.

        It felt uncomfortable and disingenuous reading it. I would have preferred if it ended with either “This is written by Chat-GPT” or “I used Chat-GPT then edited it”. Like the TLDR/Peertube bot on Lemmy, at least they sign it with their identity when they’re bot accounts.

        • Square Singer@feddit.deOP
          link
          fedilink
          arrow-up
          2
          ·
          1 year ago

          Yeah, the point of the question was not “You know, Usenet is older than Fediverse”. I actually stated exactly that in the question.

        • manitcor@lemmy.intai.tech
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          1
          ·
          1 year ago

          as time goes on i think techs that mark human made content will be more practical.

          the only reason that read as “off” is because the poster did not put any time into it, prob just a simple question in a default chat somewhere. well made systems tuned to thier use are going to be surprisingly effective.

          • inspxtr@lemmy.world
            link
            fedilink
            arrow-up
            2
            ·
            1 year ago

            as time goes on i think techs that mark human made content will be more practical.

            I hope it does not lead to the dead internet theory

      • manitcor@lemmy.intai.tech
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        3
        ·
        1 year ago

        i think it may have been. might as well, even if you put in time writing its likely to be assumed AI anyway, esp as it improves.

      • kescusay@lemmy.world
        link
        fedilink
        arrow-up
        2
        ·
        1 year ago

        Definitely. Humans don’t write that way unless they’re paid to. It reads like bland marketing material.

    • Square Singer@feddit.deOP
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      9
      ·
      1 year ago

      This looks like written by ChatGPT, and it is in many ways straight up off-topic or wrong.

      • Origin/Era: yeah, duh. That was already stated in the question.
      • Architecture: It doesn’t actually show any differences, it just doesn’t talk about different parts of the architecture. Usenet is also federated and Fediverse instances also don’t store all messages.
      • Content structure: This is the closest to an actual answer. But from what it seems, the default use case of the Usenet is identical to Lemmy.
      • Protocols: Stated in the question. NNTP is also federated.
      • Moderation: This is straight-up wrong. There are moderated and unmoderated newsgroups, same as there are moderated and unmoderated instances/communities on the fediverse.
      • Modern Relevance: This whole section is irrelevant to the question.
      • Madiator2011@lm.madiator.cloud
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        3
        ·
        1 year ago

        Sorry I should marked it as AI :) From my experience usenet is more uncesored compared to fediverse. The most issue with fedi is that there is no tru replication system (mayby except sometimes data might be cached on other instance).

    • Treczoks@kbin.social
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      1
      ·
      1 year ago

      Well, we had posts, discussions, and even media in USENET back then. The only real differences I see are that fediverse is more modern and media-aware, and that people actively battle spam/bots/trolls, which in my time on usenet was not really an issue, though.

  • ryan@the.coolest.zone
    link
    fedilink
    arrow-up
    16
    ·
    1 year ago

    Actual attempt at an answer!

    ActivityPub has actors and activities. These are very broadly defined - yes, a user is an actor, but so is a magazine in kbin. A like, a thread, and a microblog are all activities. These come from an actor, and they are sent to and cc’d to other actors in the fediverse.

    NNTP, however, is not actor to actor, it’s server to server, to my understanding.

    In practice, the way this is implemented here, it’s not that much of a practical difference, but it’s interesting to know.

    The other difference is that NNTP servers would forward messages to their other known NNTP servers, essentially creating a distributed network of information. Per the ActivityPub protocol however, no instance is obligated to do that on ActivityPub. The only obligation for forwarding is if a) The values of to, cc, and/or audience contain a Collection owned by the server (e.g. followers is a Collection) AND The values of inReplyTo, object, target and/or tag are objects owned by the server. So basically if I receive something from lemmy.world user actor, to lemmy.world community actor… Even if kbin.social hasn’t received it and errored out, I have no obligation as the.coolest.zone to send it out to them.

    • Square Singer@feddit.deOP
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      1
      ·
      1 year ago

      Thanks, at least one who got what I was on aboutˆˆ

      Ok, so we got a push vs pull model and a bit more differentiation in the protocol. So there is at least some improvement on the concept. When reading about it, it felt like yet another reinvention, but looks like there is at least some improvement on the idea. Thanks for the summary!

  • Pixel@beehaw.org
    link
    fedilink
    arrow-up
    9
    ·
    1 year ago

    Not super educated on the subject but I’m pretty sure Usenet was just one platform/standard whereas the fediverse is a bunch of interoperable standards. That’s a pretty huge leap I functionality

      • Pixel@beehaw.org
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        7
        ·
        1 year ago

        Yeah but there’s different ways to interact with the fediverse via activitypub, whereas Usenet was just. Usenet

      • kitonthenet@kbin.social
        link
        fedilink
        arrow-up
        3
        ·
        1 year ago

        It’s actually several standards, the primary one is activitypub but mastodon also uses webfinger, and for example peertube uses p2p transfers to serve video

          • kitonthenet@kbin.social
            link
            fedilink
            arrow-up
            1
            ·
            edit-2
            1 year ago

            No, i can follow and post to mastodon accounts from here, and I’ve posted my cat to !cat from my mastodon, sometimes you lose certain fields (mastodon doesn’t really know what to do with upvotes, so it doesn’t display them when I’m logged into mastodon) but the post works fine on lemmy. I also follow peertube accounts from my mastodon too

    • Square Singer@feddit.deOP
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      7
      ·
      1 year ago

      The Usenet is a very old and federated system. Same as the Fediverse, the Usenet is based around a single protocol (NNTP vs ActivityPub which Fediverse uses). Same as on the Fediverse, there are lots of different applications for it, that represent data in a different way.

  • miraclerandy@lemmy.world
    link
    fedilink
    arrow-up
    5
    ·
    1 year ago

    Here’s an analogy from a non technical person.

    Fediverse is the universe.

    The protocol is the laws of nature by which the universe functions.

    Lemmy is a galaxy or cluster of galaxies in the universe.

    • Square Singer@feddit.deOP
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      6
      ·
      1 year ago

      Thanks, I know how the fediverse works and what protocols is. My question was about the Usenet and the Fediverse serving exactly the same purpose in almost the same way.

    • HTTP_404_NotFound@lemmyonline.com
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      2
      ·
      1 year ago

      While, correct…

      Doesn’t actually answer anything about the question.

      The question was, essentially, how is the fediverse different from usenet. Which- is indeed a valid question, since both are completely different technologies, which accomplish similar goals,

  • zitronen@feddit.de
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    3
    ·
    1 year ago

    Good question! I’d say that the fediverse is semantically much more complex and thus allows for more progress. It’s like the difference between gopher and the web.