What’s ironic is you’re displaying exactly what you’re critiquing. This joke is a bit funny, but it’s on par with something like “Prince Charles asks NRA to fix his car”. There’s just baggage. And lord knows Italy has plenty of its own.
You do you, it’s just in poor taste. It’s not the end of the world or anything, it’s just funny to me that it’s the same thing “boorish Americans” get flack for.
Personally, if I think about reversed roles (I.e. some US newspaper putting an Italian gangster hat - a-la The Godfather to some politician with some offer-related pun) I wouldn’t think of it as racist, I would understand it’s not a statement about Italians in general. This also considering that being a gangster of course has plenty of negative connotations.
The whole thing feels to me like the attitude that is made fun on in Parks and Recreation and the Wamapoke. But anyway, the newspaper is shit and to be honest I find the substance of the article way worse than the image.
I mean you’re spot on, it’s really not the end of the world, and you’re correct on the parks and rec.
I think people get prickly because of what you mentioned about the substance of the article probably being way worse, everyone’s just primed these days lol. We’re kind of sorting some shit out over here…
Anyway thanks for the conversation, it’s always fun to see your own culture through someone else’s eyes.
This is the issue @sunzu@kbin.run is getting at. You saying it’s “in poor taste” is through the lens of what is considered “good taste” for Americans.
For instance, in my country, Finland, there’d be a lot of things Americans would generally find “in poor taste”. The most obvious example being that we don’t consider the naked human body to be inherently sexual, whereas Americans are really prudish about that sort of thing. So a lot of things related to sauna and mökki culture would be considered “in poor taste” for Americans, but they would not be so here. We also never tip (because we actually pay our workers.)
It’s ironic how you’re incapable of imagining another viewpoint in a debate where someone is trying to point out how bad Americans are at imagining other viewpoints.
“You do you.” Yeah. We do do we, that’s why the cultural values and what is “in poor taste” is different…?
I guess what it comes down to is there a plenty of things, big and small, that I don’t have an issue with as an American but I know matter to the other person. Usually it’s small stuff (how people comport themselves in relation to work, the line between direct and rude, etc) , but when it comes to things where people died, I think it’s best to defer to the people involved.
Maybe that’s a trap of my upbringing as well but I don’t see that as American lens, I see that as recognizing there are a lot of lenses.
And again, the original joke is decent, its a role reversal and punches up not down, but I wouldn’t want an American paper making jokes about Finnish biathalon Olympians spanking the Russians.
Any joke with cultural baggage carries the risk you miss context. Again, I don’t think that’s just true for Americans.
What’s the offensive part here? Acknowledging Kamala’s heritage? Making a joke headline? What?
I’m pretty sure you can’t answer that without an exceedingly American perspective on it.
Here in Europe, we do consider these things. For one, it’s literally illegal to be a Nazi in Germany and do nazi salutes and whatnot, but that’s allowed in the US. A tit flashing on TV, however isn’t. The Washington Redskins only relabeled themselves “the Washington Commanders” in 2022.
but I wouldn’t want an American paper making jokes about Finnish biathalon Olympians spanking the Russians.
What? Why would that offend anyone? This is exactly what we mean when we talk about your American perspective. You just can’t imagine someone having different values and practices apparently.
It would be an amazing day for Finns if a huge American newspaper did a frontpage story about something like that.
I’m pretty sure that a lot of illustrations in Finnish newspapers when it comes to stories about saunas and mökki culture would be downright unacceptable in print media in the US.
And when you manage to half-understand someone elses reasons for doing something, you still don’t understand their motivation and then conclude by some highroading about being insensitive to death or something, implying your moral framework is superior. When the moral framework of the person who raised you probably included “segregation is just normal everyday business” at least in their childhood.
Because racism has been such a massive thing in the US for such a long time, some of you have become a little too sensitive and are eager to point out how racist other places are according to you. Simplest examples would be getting mad at the Spanish word for “black”, or the Korean word 네가 [nega]
“Any joke with cultural baggage”
Again, you can’t see that the cultural baggage is American. It’s not Italian. There’s no cultural baggage here, when viewed without your American perspective. That’s what I try to keep iterating.
Honestly, you don’t think you miss context when you probably don’t understand the cultural framework this was created in at all?
What’s ironic is you’re displaying exactly what you’re critiquing. This joke is a bit funny, but it’s on par with something like “Prince Charles asks NRA to fix his car”. There’s just baggage. And lord knows Italy has plenty of its own.
Not when it comes to Native Americans though.
Considering that this is a national newspaper meant for locals, I don’t think other culture’s baggage should necessarily be taken in consideration.
You do you, it’s just in poor taste. It’s not the end of the world or anything, it’s just funny to me that it’s the same thing “boorish Americans” get flack for.
Personally, if I think about reversed roles (I.e. some US newspaper putting an Italian gangster hat - a-la The Godfather to some politician with some offer-related pun) I wouldn’t think of it as racist, I would understand it’s not a statement about Italians in general. This also considering that being a gangster of course has plenty of negative connotations.
The whole thing feels to me like the attitude that is made fun on in Parks and Recreation and the Wamapoke. But anyway, the newspaper is shit and to be honest I find the substance of the article way worse than the image.
I mean you’re spot on, it’s really not the end of the world, and you’re correct on the parks and rec.
I think people get prickly because of what you mentioned about the substance of the article probably being way worse, everyone’s just primed these days lol. We’re kind of sorting some shit out over here…
Anyway thanks for the conversation, it’s always fun to see your own culture through someone else’s eyes.
This is the issue @sunzu@kbin.run is getting at. You saying it’s “in poor taste” is through the lens of what is considered “good taste” for Americans.
For instance, in my country, Finland, there’d be a lot of things Americans would generally find “in poor taste”. The most obvious example being that we don’t consider the naked human body to be inherently sexual, whereas Americans are really prudish about that sort of thing. So a lot of things related to sauna and mökki culture would be considered “in poor taste” for Americans, but they would not be so here. We also never tip (because we actually pay our workers.)
It’s ironic how you’re incapable of imagining another viewpoint in a debate where someone is trying to point out how bad Americans are at imagining other viewpoints.
“You do you.” Yeah. We do do we, that’s why the cultural values and what is “in poor taste” is different…?
I guess what it comes down to is there a plenty of things, big and small, that I don’t have an issue with as an American but I know matter to the other person. Usually it’s small stuff (how people comport themselves in relation to work, the line between direct and rude, etc) , but when it comes to things where people died, I think it’s best to defer to the people involved.
Maybe that’s a trap of my upbringing as well but I don’t see that as American lens, I see that as recognizing there are a lot of lenses.
And again, the original joke is decent, its a role reversal and punches up not down, but I wouldn’t want an American paper making jokes about Finnish biathalon Olympians spanking the Russians.
Any joke with cultural baggage carries the risk you miss context. Again, I don’t think that’s just true for Americans.
But you don’t. You don’t see how ingrained your perspective is. You can’t see your blind spots, that’s tje definition of a blind spot.
So you’re saying that any time anyone wants to refer to native Americans in any way, they should ask… Americans? Not even native Americans (a term which, incidentally, is also an example of this perspective lacking American perspective
What’s the offensive part here? Acknowledging Kamala’s heritage? Making a joke headline? What?
I’m pretty sure you can’t answer that without an exceedingly American perspective on it.
Here in Europe, we do consider these things. For one, it’s literally illegal to be a Nazi in Germany and do nazi salutes and whatnot, but that’s allowed in the US. A tit flashing on TV, however isn’t. The Washington Redskins only relabeled themselves “the Washington Commanders” in 2022.
What? Why would that offend anyone? This is exactly what we mean when we talk about your American perspective. You just can’t imagine someone having different values and practices apparently.
It would be an amazing day for Finns if a huge American newspaper did a frontpage story about something like that.
I’m pretty sure that a lot of illustrations in Finnish newspapers when it comes to stories about saunas and mökki culture would be downright unacceptable in print media in the US.
And when you manage to half-understand someone elses reasons for doing something, you still don’t understand their motivation and then conclude by some highroading about being insensitive to death or something, implying your moral framework is superior. When the moral framework of the person who raised you probably included “segregation is just normal everyday business” at least in their childhood.
Because racism has been such a massive thing in the US for such a long time, some of you have become a little too sensitive and are eager to point out how racist other places are according to you. Simplest examples would be getting mad at the Spanish word for “black”, or the Korean word 네가 [nega]
“Any joke with cultural baggage”
Again, you can’t see that the cultural baggage is American. It’s not Italian. There’s no cultural baggage here, when viewed without your American perspective. That’s what I try to keep iterating.
Honestly, you don’t think you miss context when you probably don’t understand the cultural framework this was created in at all?