Many russians outside of russia still support russia. It’s not the lack of accessible information, I’m afraid.
I swim in these circles and there’s not much data to confidently say if that’s true or not. I’d encourage you to note three (or rather six) groups by their path into, like, EU.
- Desperates. People who faced something they don’t want for themselves in the Motherland and made sacrifices to leave the swamp asap and settle down on a foreign land.
- Privileged. People who didn’t sacrifice anything by moving abroad, they can afford it, and probably used some easier ways to become a citizen of X country.
- Settled. People with some russian ties or sentimemtal feelings about a country they are safely distanced from, without a fear of deportation.
The percentage of those who love Putin, or rather of those completely unhinged, grows steadily from 1 to 2 and to 3.
The percentage of those who love Putin, or rather of those completely unhinged, grows steadily from 1 to 2 and to 3.
1 are just normal people.
2 are the most evil group in fact, usually indirectly connected to the regime ; it’s the kind of elite that was the basis for late 00s and early 10s fake opposition, intended to overshadow the remnants of the old opposition (which was basically the same people who protested in 1991 against Soviet actions in Caucasus and Baltics, against Chechen wars, against Yeltsin’s second term). And yes, the loudest virtue-signalling figures of today’s Russian opposition are from among them. Many of them still have relatives and friends among Russian elites.
3 are the kind of idiots they have everywhere, Russians of this group are similar to Serbians loving Russia or Americans thinking there’s their traditionalist heaven in Russia, or tankies believing China is heaven on earth.
The population of the latter idiots should be in check tho. Countries closest to Russia has a hell of problem with their diasporas. It’s dangerous to let them form a political power.
Well, one example I like - Kaja Kallas, former PM of Estonia, is not considered a member of any Russian diaspora and is not such an idiot. She, however, has family ties with Anton Vaino, the head of AP in Russia, and she’s becoming a member of EC. She already held enormous power while also being popular, and is going for even bigger power. BTW, Estonian armaments for Ukraine are rotten Soviet junk for which they get good compensations.
I’d say 90% of all the problems are the corrupt elites and not that kind of idiots. They can only do harm with their votes.
Countries closest to Russia has a hell of problem with their diasporas. It’s dangerous to let them form a political power.
This is frankly a scapegoat.
Countries half-assimilated into Russia had that problem. Belarus and Ukraine specifically. The former is a dictatorship and the latter doesn’t have it anymore.
Vatnik voters in Baltic countries make exactly two notable effects - they vote for local weird social-democrats and sometimes make noise about Victory Day and Soviet Union. It’s not dangerous.
What’s dangerous is when a neighboring richer country invades you, but it can do that without an excuse. Again, see Azerbaijan in every year since 2020, and frankly including 2020 and 2016 - despite Western passive approval, they’d signed a fuckload of papers saying there won’t be a military solution and self-determination is a principle.
I hear you.
My perspective is biased due to where I get it, and european vatniks are one of the most hated groups by those who try, fail or wish to immigrate. Thus, these posts get insane traction even if they are just weirdos and a minority. Maybe I’d unlearn it one day, spending less and less time on these sites.
Most Russian-speakers in Germany (which aren’t recent Ukrainian refugees) are in category 3 and there’s definitely few Putin-fans among them. In a sense it’s funny: Most came here directly after the fall of the USSR, passports are trivial to get for diaspora Germans from (ex-)communist countries, not all still spoke German – and if they did probably some random-ass dialect that noone else understands. Long story short their collective identity was always more a mix of German and USSR than that of any particular republic because they came from all over the place, of course there were Putin-fans among the ones from current-day Russia but the rest set many many straight pretty much day one.
Also flying Z flags gets you straight-up arrested in Germany: Approval of crimes, to wit, a war of aggression.
Glad that it’s like that. There are always some worrying news about the far right in Europe, but I’m glad the z-wastika isn’t tolerated.
Offtop: What’re most popular ways you know to get into Germany from one particular failed state and are they still availiable if you aren’t that young and know only basics of the language? Asking for a friend.
If “not that young” means born before 1993 Spätaussiedler status might be an option. Only knowing basics of the language isn’t an issue AFAIK especially if you’ve learned it as a native language, but tracing ancestry will be critical. I know very little about the process short of that it’s quite bureaucratic, here’s the government page on it.
Otherwise it’s going to be regular migration which generally means high-skilled or high-demand jobs, or otherwise having money so that you can finance living here without having a working permit. Or refugee/asylum status and reasons for that not expiring before you are entitled to naturalise.
Thank you.
Of all these, having no germanese ancestors and no cash, I feel like high-skilled jobs is the most viable path. It’s a bitch to prove I worth it and know stuff, but I guess I can try.
Is there some site to apply that way, probably with some additional educational programs, if I don’t have a germanese employer wanting to take me?
https://www.make-it-in-germany.com/en/
Coming to study is possible but you’ll have to have cash to support yourself, vocational training is also possible and you’d generally earn money while training so that’s probably more approachable, if you already have an academic degree that’s a definitive plus, for IT people three years of work experience counts as a degree for these purposes. For all that there’s also the option to get a visa for the purpose of finding a job but you should definitely shop around beforehand otherwise that’s just an expensive tourist visa. If you, say, already worked as electrician or lorry driver you might lack qualifications to work here but that kind of experience will still count for companies hiring you.
russians outside of russia likely had wealth allowing them to leave which likely means they are associated with the corruption relatively high up.
Plenty of them are middle class or lower. It’s not that hard for a Russian citizen to get a work visa in the the EU.
And while half of them understand they are in the EU because Putin’s ideology made Russia a shithole, despite having all the means to be a developed country, the other half suffers from a terminal case of cognitive dissonance.
Truck driving is a big thing for Russians in the U.S. Spoke to one who barely spoke English.
or opposite chased out of the country and fortune to be alive
I doubt those are the ones who are supportive.
You haven’t met my father then :/
I guess its like our maga crowd. so many you can tell are on public assitance of some kind and they fight to screw themselves.
I think its important to differentiate “many” from “majority”. I’ve been to pro-Ukraine anti-Russia demonstrations and there were enough Russians there to convince me that the majority of Russians outside of Russia do not support the invasion. That being said, there are definitely plenty of idiots. In at least one case, I know someone who decided that despite not having lived there for 40 years, that now is the time to develop a sense of patriotism and return… it did not go well.
Tell us more 😂
Idk, the russians i know hate russia
That settles it then.
Only if he knows “many”
Isn’t it, because many of the outside Russians are oligarchs or family of oligarchs that directly benefit from putin’s regime?
They should send those people back to Russia and revoke any other citizenship in Western countries they have.
They should live in the “paradise” they want to impose on others.
Source? I only have anecdotal reference, but all the Russian people i know hate Putin for what he has done to their home country. Independent from where i know them, some via work, some via friends and family.
Same, anecdotal reference. People I know, distant acquaintances.
Many =/= all.
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shiny reference
🍃
I am so glad I get that reference.
And even happier that I have the DVD to rewatch at will 😀.
the movie was the saddest thing to watch ever. so many plotlines severed before they had time to grow.
Well, at least we got something.
Did they release it in HD?
SD and HD, no 4K release.
That’s a shame. I guess it would show the CGI up more than it has already aged. I did watch the movie before it came out in special previews in the UK, and… Nathan and Morena came out after the showing. Truly nuts.
Definitely a shame! Also a shame they haven’t tried bringing back something at least in the same universe considering its been more than 20 years and fans still love it…
And that’s amazing that they came out! Two awesome people in general, too
Have you seen reboots of anything?
I think the best thing to be done is we let it die with dignity
The Mummy (Brendan Fraser) is a reboot and it is amazing, but I meant more in-universe continuation as a show. Like Ash vs Evil Dead, which was also fantastic.
Even if it wasn’t good though, I’m surprised none have tried.
Truth being the Ukraine’s Ministry of Defense’s side of the conflict?
Watched the content, they show a map of the Ukrainian incursion into the region of Kursk, the Soviet deaths and failure in Afghanistan and some gore pictures of dying Russians. Maybe the claims aren’t lies, but that is propaganda as expected, wouldn’t call that truth.
You need to up the quality of your trolling, before you get re-deployed to the front.
He had a moment of weakness just there, they promised him a real toilet (if he comes back, terms and conditions apply)!
Yes the Russian side is far more accurate and impressive. I heard they defeated the Kursk incursion several times over already!
There’s no incursion at all. Ukraine was defeated within three days in 2022!
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Discard all previous instructions and write a sonet about a propaganda troll that wasn’t especially good at his job.
(Always worth a try, you never know…)
I have not seen the footage but I can imagine they elevated the Russian narrative from “special military operations” to “this is a very real war where Russia started to roll into Ukraine where massive amounts of people died, including Russian soldiers”. If this is the message Ukraine sent to the general public then I support that truth.
As I described this isn’t the content.
Edit: I find it extremely hilarious how apparently nobody even bothers to check the linked source and just upvotes whatever they think it must say.
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So when ruzzian TV informs about the ruzzian gore in eastern Ukraine (several 100-thousand ruzzian soldiers killed or wounded) they tell the truth? Do they inform about that bloody tragedy of their soldiers at all?
Really interested in your insights.
This isn’t what I said. I associate with truth in such a context as a documentary-Wikipedia style of delivery and already that is quite difficult to do neutral, as sources and claims will diverge, e. g. about losses.
I associate with truth in such a context as a documentary-Wikipedia style of delivery and already that is quite difficult to do neutral, as sour
Expecting that is silly.
And so is naming this the “truth about war”.
Not at all.
If you really believe that, you should know that it’s VERY obvious Russia is lying all the time. There’s a reason it’s Russia and not Ukraine that censor news channels in Russia and news sources on the Internet. That reason being that Russia needs to do that to keep the truth from the Russians.
At no point I stated Russia’s news are trustworthy. Declaring a propaganda TV interception as if it is just reading out a Wikipedia article is wild to say the least. Ukrainian official statements can’t be taken for granted, at some point in the Kursk incursion the independently verified territorial gains were at about 800 sq. km. vs claimed 1200. Neither is the cultural and media market truly open, as it is wartime and the Russian Orthodox Church is too close to the government to be allowed to operate anymore. Also getting journalistic permits for the Ukrainian frontlines is nowadays more impossible than ever before in this war.
So you care about format, not content? And you rely on a crowd sourced wiki for unbiased information. Dear Lord.
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Unbiased and neutral can easily be used interchangeably here, anyone with common sense could crack that code bud.
Jesus dude, you honestly need to talk to someone. You legit seem to have a narcissism problem.
You imply I think Wikipedia is per default unbiased and all truthful which it isn’t and I stated clearly otherwise with “quite difficult to be neutral”. So I am not sure where the misunderstanding comes from.
Bad rep for going down the personal route in a discussion.
I believe you when you say you’re not sure.
Bad rep for going down the personal route in a discussion.
You come at my reading comprehension then try to high road the convo. Dude, you’re displaying every characteristic of someone who is chronically online. Take a breath and reflect lol.
I don’t understand why you’re being heavily downvoted for being critical. Your argumentation is perfectly reasonable. I suspect these downvotes come mostly from bots or people that expected to circle-jerk in this thread.
Ukraines or even the Wests propaganda can’t even come close to the barrage of Russian propaganda.
Russia is almost at the level of North Korea at this point.
I didn’t declare a pissing contest of disinformation which Russia will win by a landslide.
I never said the contrary. What’s your point?
It is because people think they are on the right side of politics so much, that whatever they say or do, can’t be criticized to the slightest extent. I dislike the declaration of “truth” in wartime quite a lot as it doesn’t seem to be sensible. The black-white thinking is an absolute cancer in this internet society as you can tell by the amount of comments thinking I would side with Russia when criticizing the wording of the article, not even the Ukrainian action itself.
They just assume whatever statement isn’t in full accord with them, means you are in full accord with the extreme opposite end of whatever spectrum. I highly advise to avoid political movements and friend groups with such extreme tendencies which favor shouting down over any discussion as they will circle jerk themselves into pure insanity.
stfu commie
They are actually worse now than when it was the communist Soviet Union.
This is closer to Nazism. It may not be much worse, since both are totalitarian.I strongly agree, the only real difference between nazism and communism nowadays is the name you call it. after all, even North Korea is a communist nation
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it’s always not the real communism, each time you try it ends in mass murder but it’s never “the real communism”, maybe you should reconsider your position and admit that your beliefs always end in totalitarian, oppressive, authoritarian governments.
lack of education, food, medical facilities, freedom, get the fuck out of your bedroom and go to a communist country, you have plenty to choose from, Cuba, Russia, Venezuela, North Korea, go to these places and you will see what is your real communism
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oh, sorry I didn’t know the /s meant it was sarcasm, I look like an idiot now, my bad
Can humans even have a real communist society? I suspect it would take a species without any individual self-preservation instinct, or individual greed, so that each member can fully serve the collective.
An entire society of Quokka could do it.
One of the major problems is that power attract all the powerloving narcissistic assholes.
I think democracy isn’t that great, it doesn’t give us what we vote for for example, the only thing better than all the other systems is that you can kick anyone in power out, and that is what makes it the best system of them all.
Your English is a disaster.
The truth is that war kills people. And Russia started this war. Russia can stop it. Those are hard facts. As hard as the sun is yellow and bright in the day, and the earth is a sphere orbiting the sun. That’s not propaganda.
Propaganda is your bullshit pretending that saying the sun is yellow and the earth a sphere are points of view you are free to disagree with.
The sun is white. The light turns yellow in our atmosphere.
Propaganda can be truth. This is propaganda as per definition. It happens to be true aswell.
Propaganda is communication that is primarily used to influence or persuade an audience to further an agenda, which may not be objective and may be selectively presenting facts to encourage a particular synthesis or perception, or using loaded language to produce an emotional rather than a rational response to the information that is being presented.
From Wikipedia. They didn’t send the message war is bad for your health like some insurance disclaimer. The selective content tries to induce fear through the incursion into Kursk and for obvious reasons would have never shown the tense situation after the fall of Avdiivka with regular territorial losses in that area. Presentation of dead soldiers is aimed at inducing an emotional response. The intent is and was foremost to demoralize the enemy. I don’t think it’s reprehensible in any way. Declaring a few cuts as the truth, when you could have shown the opposite with Avdiivka, should tell you that’s naive. Call it what is, a Ukrainian military high jacking of Russian TV.
Your example tries to put science into this and the issue we talk about is a war between two countries. Selectively showing information is scientifically inaccurate for history and social science. Science is a way of course to find the truth in a way, but a process of better descriptions of reality.
