This is actually a persistent myth: there is no evidence that they are beholden to a constituency that would punish them for any actions that curtail Israel.
Israel’s actions are wildly unpopular across the electorate. They are unpopular with nearly all Democrats as well as most independents and a very large plurally of Republicans. I have seen numerous polls that show that there is a very significant number of voters that Harris is losing over this, and I have seen absolutely nothing to indicate that there is any measurable cost to her speaking out against Israel at all. Which is really sad. Because it means that this is absolutely a moral choice on her part. This is not an electoral choice at all.
I am not religious so I don’t know the details but I have a friend who is very religious and refuses to vote for Trump again. He hates Harris but won’t give me a reason. When I have brought up the Israel stuff he immediately jumps to a very, holy land, must support and defend at any cost mentality. He would never vote Democrat but it makes me wonder how pervasive this weird fairy tale attachment exists throughout the voting base.
That’s a good question. Is your friend an evangelical Christian? A lot of people don’t know this, but the actual biggest plurality of political Zionists in the US are not Jews, but Evangelical Christians who support Israel because they believe it is a chess piece in bringing about the end of the world (which is a good thing in their dogma).
They also happen to often like the idea of ethnofascism, which is a very sad state of affairs.
He is evangelical Christian yes. I don’t have much exposure to religion. I have gone to his church a couple times when he has asked me to in the decade or so we’ve been friends. I’m in my forties. I’ve never felt pressured but I also keep my religion or lack of to myself. I just never really understood the position on Israel and it really stuck out to me. Even though he will freely admit how crazy and hateful things are out of the MAGA crowd, I get the feeling anytime the topic gets close to coming up with me he fends it off by essentially communicating to me that he has unwavering and unquestioned support of Israel and I haven’t been willing to push it since he is otherwise a great person in my life that has helped me through a number of difficulties.
That’s a shame. For what it’s worth, his position isn’t a mystery to me. I believe that he’s been convinced by his church that unquestioningly supporting Israel’s expansionary goals, regardless of any other moral question is an absolute necessity for anyone who truly loves Jesus and believes strongly in his rebirth and in the promise of everlasting life in heaven.
It is – with all due respect – as crazy as anything you’d hear in a Texas cult bunker. But I’m guessing that it’s real as a wildfire to your friend. It makes me sad to think about.
I appreciate the insight and time you have taken to respond. Also your understanding. I have a really difficult time processing the situation. It does feel very cult like and matter of fact. I don’t understand how someone that seems so good can know something so bad is going on, who is so obviously able to recognize the bad in other related areas, and blindly vehemently support them unquestionably. He’s intelligent and successful…yet so lost, the most caring and compassionate person I know; it can’t be ok.
If it makes you feel any better, I remind myself that I myself am subject to the same irrationalities and motivated reasoning as anyone else. We’re all just people, and people aren’t logic machines. We’re bundles of impulses and habits that live within whatever stories our minds have to create to make sense of all of this.
In this context, if you’re looking for some kind of remedy, the best I can offer is that instead of trying to bother disputing with myths and superstitions, recognize that anyone who grows out of them usually does so because they find some other way to the same fundamental bedrock notions. Your friend wants to adhere to the rules laid out by the creator. They want to be worthy of Christ’s love.
I think if you were inclined to change their mind – which I’m not recommending – it would be when this comes up to remind him how many people have been seduced into supporting ungodly things thinking they were following God’s will. That’s Satan’s number one tactic. So all we can do is stay humble and listen to our hearts. If seeing kids living in Bethlehem struggling to survive under an oppressive king just as Jesus and his parents did seems wrong, it’s okay to not have a confident stance. Maybe your pastor says it’s God’s plan, but no one – not even the disciples – could ever no God’s plan for sure. You don’t have to have a stance. You can say “God’s will will be done. He does not require my involvement.”
A majority of those who actually turn out to vote are pro Israel (and no, people under 35 don’t vote in other countries where they have more options, so cut the “they don’t vote because of the support for Israel” bullshit, they don’t vote because they’re young and don’t care)
So in the last few weeks, Biden can pull support as much as possible basically giving Bibi the finger. Any funding that dries up is unlikely to have more of an effect than pulling support. This helps Harris win. Then she can re-woo them over the next 4 years.
It feels like they are totally beholden to Israel.
If they push back hard, they alienate swing voters who like Israel from the old days, aka apocalypse.
This is actually a persistent myth: there is no evidence that they are beholden to a constituency that would punish them for any actions that curtail Israel.
Israel’s actions are wildly unpopular across the electorate. They are unpopular with nearly all Democrats as well as most independents and a very large plurally of Republicans. I have seen numerous polls that show that there is a very significant number of voters that Harris is losing over this, and I have seen absolutely nothing to indicate that there is any measurable cost to her speaking out against Israel at all. Which is really sad. Because it means that this is absolutely a moral choice on her part. This is not an electoral choice at all.
https://truthout.org/articles/poll-endorsing-israel-arms-embargo-would-boost-harriss-support-to-49-percent/
I am not religious so I don’t know the details but I have a friend who is very religious and refuses to vote for Trump again. He hates Harris but won’t give me a reason. When I have brought up the Israel stuff he immediately jumps to a very, holy land, must support and defend at any cost mentality. He would never vote Democrat but it makes me wonder how pervasive this weird fairy tale attachment exists throughout the voting base.
That’s a good question. Is your friend an evangelical Christian? A lot of people don’t know this, but the actual biggest plurality of political Zionists in the US are not Jews, but Evangelical Christians who support Israel because they believe it is a chess piece in bringing about the end of the world (which is a good thing in their dogma).
They also happen to often like the idea of ethnofascism, which is a very sad state of affairs.
He is evangelical Christian yes. I don’t have much exposure to religion. I have gone to his church a couple times when he has asked me to in the decade or so we’ve been friends. I’m in my forties. I’ve never felt pressured but I also keep my religion or lack of to myself. I just never really understood the position on Israel and it really stuck out to me. Even though he will freely admit how crazy and hateful things are out of the MAGA crowd, I get the feeling anytime the topic gets close to coming up with me he fends it off by essentially communicating to me that he has unwavering and unquestioned support of Israel and I haven’t been willing to push it since he is otherwise a great person in my life that has helped me through a number of difficulties.
That’s a shame. For what it’s worth, his position isn’t a mystery to me. I believe that he’s been convinced by his church that unquestioningly supporting Israel’s expansionary goals, regardless of any other moral question is an absolute necessity for anyone who truly loves Jesus and believes strongly in his rebirth and in the promise of everlasting life in heaven.
It is – with all due respect – as crazy as anything you’d hear in a Texas cult bunker. But I’m guessing that it’s real as a wildfire to your friend. It makes me sad to think about.
I appreciate the insight and time you have taken to respond. Also your understanding. I have a really difficult time processing the situation. It does feel very cult like and matter of fact. I don’t understand how someone that seems so good can know something so bad is going on, who is so obviously able to recognize the bad in other related areas, and blindly vehemently support them unquestionably. He’s intelligent and successful…yet so lost, the most caring and compassionate person I know; it can’t be ok.
If it makes you feel any better, I remind myself that I myself am subject to the same irrationalities and motivated reasoning as anyone else. We’re all just people, and people aren’t logic machines. We’re bundles of impulses and habits that live within whatever stories our minds have to create to make sense of all of this.
In this context, if you’re looking for some kind of remedy, the best I can offer is that instead of trying to bother disputing with myths and superstitions, recognize that anyone who grows out of them usually does so because they find some other way to the same fundamental bedrock notions. Your friend wants to adhere to the rules laid out by the creator. They want to be worthy of Christ’s love.
I think if you were inclined to change their mind – which I’m not recommending – it would be when this comes up to remind him how many people have been seduced into supporting ungodly things thinking they were following God’s will. That’s Satan’s number one tactic. So all we can do is stay humble and listen to our hearts. If seeing kids living in Bethlehem struggling to survive under an oppressive king just as Jesus and his parents did seems wrong, it’s okay to not have a confident stance. Maybe your pastor says it’s God’s plan, but no one – not even the disciples – could ever no God’s plan for sure. You don’t have to have a stance. You can say “God’s will will be done. He does not require my involvement.”
A majority of Americans are against the action in Gaza. It is a popular opinion not to support it, unless you’re a major donor.
A majority of those who actually turn out to vote are pro Israel (and no, people under 35 don’t vote in other countries where they have more options, so cut the “they don’t vote because of the support for Israel” bullshit, they don’t vote because they’re young and don’t care)
Okay, well the Harris campaign can continue claiming that the reason she’s down in the polls in Michigan has nothing to do with Gaza.
So in the last few weeks, Biden can pull support as much as possible basically giving Bibi the finger. Any funding that dries up is unlikely to have more of an effect than pulling support. This helps Harris win. Then she can re-woo them over the next 4 years.