Applying for jobs and interviews should be paid time. Don’t change my mind
Im a software engineer. Im super lucky i have a good resume, and don’t waste too much time compared to some (i never send a cover letter, ill just leave a dot or “i was forced to write this text”).
Just to talk to 5 teams, i need to do 10 code challenges/interviews (3 hours each) and over 20 other types of interviews for the 5/10 tests i didnt fuckup. That’s a week of work. People pay me several thousand dollars for this time normally.
I don’t think getting paid will work. It could be that there’s an amount in my total comp that is meant to compensate my time, and a direct cash bonus if i do get the job or something (singing bonus). But we know theyll just deduct it out of what they were going to offer anyway
I have gotten around huge coding homework during interview proceedings by telling the company that I’m also interviewing elsewhere. The homework dropped from a six hour task to a one hour task.
Some companies try to get free labor out of you during the interview proceedings.
Singing bonus only if you can perform ‘under pressure’
More of a “Bohemian Rhapsody” guy personally, but I’ll give it a go.
Don’t make me choose between Bowie and Queen
Does “Ice Ice Baby” also work or not? Asking for a friend
It might satisfy some unit tests, but would probably fail integration testing. Sorry.
Excellent collobration and listening skills
Always brings something new and inventive to the table
If it makes you feel any better, HR concluded that this long interview hazing process is no better than doing one interview. We still do 5 interviews anyway because it makes us look more prestigious and other companies expect us to do it.
Don’t forget to tip the interviewer, too.
The $0 option actually just defaults to the $5 minimum
Considering the question posed was, “Am I insensitive to the world if…,” I will politely say the answer is “Yes,” and impolitely say, “you huge dipshit.”
You are way too kind. Dipshit implies a mistake from ignorance. This guy is an ass of the greatest magnitude.
Avoid the vitriol
You first, motherfucker.
I’ve been to interviews that were literally scams. Nah man you have to provide the good faith effort on your end too.
lol so have I. Went to an interview for a warehouse job when I was 18 and it turned out to be an attempt to get me to sell vacuums that was also an amway style pyramid scheme. Fuck those people for wasting my time.
I’ve heard of restaurants that have applicants do a ‘trial’ shift for no pay, and then never call back. They manage to line up a new person every night this way.
If I found out somewhere was doing that I would report them to whoever I could
Also plant a bomb under the kitchen
You’d be blasting the laborers, though. The person responsible is at home doing zero work.
Trial shifts are a thing, but at least in the US they have to be paid to be legal. And wage theft, if reported, actually results in penalties for the fraudulent employer.
I’m guessing a lot of the teenagers that apply to work at restaurants that do these illegal, unpaid “trial shifts” aren’t aware of how illegal that is so they probably get away with it for far longer than they should.
Shit, a lot of adults in the US don’t know their federal and state rights as employees thanks to lack of education on labor laws. Laws only work if everyone is aware of them. Can’t report something if you don’t know it’s wrong in the first place.
I had thousands stolen from me in unpaid wages a few years ago and nothing happened when I reported it. Our institutions in the US are crumbling a little more year after year
“Am I out of touch with the world”
…
“Please stop telling me i am wrong and give me answers that support my initial idea”His edit back pedaling is literally “it’s just a thought experiment bro!”
Thought exercise lmao
This is LinkedIn isn’t it? This exactly the trash you’d expect from tech bros choosing this as their social media platform of choice. Reminder: Microsoft owns LinkedIn & you can delete your account today (since 90% of your messages & recruitement is spam/trash).
Deleting LinkedIn is not viable.
Many companies will only hire if you also have LinkedIn and connections to previous companies. What you are suggesting would be career suicide for many industries and fields. It would be like removing your paper contributions from publications just because they’re a scam. We know it’s a scam. There are no other options.
The real way to use linkedIn is treat it like a virtual CV. Just enter all the important info on your profile, connect to past employers and employees who would be able to provide good reference and that’s it. No need to browse through the slop trough of a timeline or actively post about your “recent meeting with some random supplier going great!” Because no hiring manager gives a shit about the social aspect.
Absolutely agreed, I do the same and also message past colleagues to keep up with them.
LinkedIn is one of the platforms I felt I could reasonably delete since I got little to know value out of it (rather it was more of a drain)—& I didn’t have something like family connections to worry about.
One doesn’t just delete LinkedIn. In fact, one can’t totally. Once it’s got its claws into you, your hooked with steel barbs. It’s easier to escape ebola.
Although this is obviously a dumb solution, I do get what he’s saying. Part of why the job market is so bad right now, is that there is a lot of people (often with the help of automation) sending out applications in bulk to companies they fail to meet even bare minimum requirements for. For example, its anecdotal, but a local company has given up on public postings because last time they tried, they received thousands of applications in a single day (most of which with no qualifications) and the ones they tried to reach out to weren’t even in the country. There are a lot of ways to help filter this, but it just highlights what a mess things are right now.
Part of why the job market is so bad right now, is that there is a lot of people (often with the help of automation) sending out applications in bulk to companies they fail to meet even bare minimum requirements for.
But this is a direct result of employers actions with incomplete or deceptive job postings, bad faith interviews, and ghosting prospective candidates.
Employers aren’t a collective either though, and while abusive employers drive workers to this, more desirable positions (often with better companies) are the ones who bear the brunt of this. The new doctors office looking to hire staff at a fair rate shouldn’t be punished because every McDonald’s on the planet abuses their workforce, nor should the workers who are actually able to work and now have a harder time finding work.
Employers aren’t a collective either though
And here lies the fucking problem.
Grow some fucking solidarity, bootlicker, you have more in common with a sweatshop worker in Sri Lanka than you do with your CEO.
E: I’m still waking up and misread “employer” for “employee”, but my point still stands: you’re a bootlicker who needs to grow some solidarity and realise that your employer sees you, and every other employee, as nothing but a dollar sign there to make them money, no matter how many times they tell you you’re “family”. Their interests will never deliberately intersect with yours unless it is so you produce more value for them.
Workers of the world unite.
Fuck self serving bootlickers.
I’m literally just compaining that the system as a whole has fallen apart. I don’t blame people for automated mass applications. Its the logical way to apply in this landscale, and doubly so if you’re trying to escape an even more hyper-capitalist country. I just want people to be able to pay their bills, and as it stands, that means finding a job. If wanting to be able to feed my family makes me a bootlicker, so be it.
The new doctors office looking to hire staff at a fair rate shouldn’t be punished because every McDonald’s on the planet abuses their workforce
I’m not sure why you’re bringing “fairness” into this. We’re not talking about one group that has wronged another. These are human behaviors and reaction to prior behaviors. There’s no system in place to enforce “fairness” in the way you’re talking about.
If you’re advocating for such a system to be created, then there’s some possibilities there such as employers certifying (under penalty of law) to treat employee candidates with certain rights, and likewise employee candidates could be certifed to actually hold the credentials the employer is requiring for the position. All of those rules will have to be set up and agreed to, and will cost money which has to come from somewhere. As of today, none of this exists. There is no entity enforcing “fairness” in the posting of positions or the application to those positions.
I’m not sure why you’re bringing “fairness” into this. We’re not talking about one group that has wronged another. These are human behaviors and reaction to prior behaviors. There’s no system in place to enforce “fairness” in the way you’re talking about.
Fair is subjective, but in the context specifics aren’t important beyond treating employees as people who deserve to be able to not starve to death or die of overworking.
If you’re advocating for such a system to be created, then there’s some possibilities there such as employers certifying (under penalty of law) to treat employee candidates with certain rights, and likewise employee candidates could be certifed to actually hold the credentials the employer is requiring for the position. All of those rules will have to be set up and agreed to, and will cost money which has to come from somewhere.
I don’t have anything specific I’m advocating for aside from the more common sense, foundational stuff like worker protections, social safety nets, and anti-monopoly law. That said, I don’t think a legally regulated job board would be a bad idea as a band-aid solution. Maybe I’m missing something, but I wouldn’t expect it to be difficult to develop or run. As you said, companies could set minimum requirements such as being with 50km, or having a specific degree. It could be used to help keep companies accountable too, such as requiring a minimum salary be listed or tieing it in to other government programs. In terms of funding, I expect fines for fraudulent postings and applications would be enough to fund most of it, but you could also potentially require something like a deposit on postings, to be returned when (and if) the position is filled. That said, this is entirely me spitballing,
That said, this is entirely me spitballing,
Yep, I’m doing the same, so we’re in the same boat.
The difficulty is going to be adoption of any system. It will have to be carrot or stick…or both. As it stands, the only way I see this occurring is with government mandates, which means engaging politicians to craft legislation (at the state level at least). Before the above happens its going to have to get a lot worse for both employers and employees. There just isn’t enough positive or negative incentive yet to be adopted by society at-large so far.
One other possibility would be at the trade/professional association level. Perhaps say automotive mechanics and employers that hire mechanics. Like 90% of the ideas I think about someone’s already done them, or at least thought about them and identified some shortcoming I haven’t seen. Its entirely possible niche industries do this vetting and certifying of employer offered positions and employee candidates already.
those poor victimized CEOs…
This hurts everyone, and hurts employees and small businesses most. A big company has far more resources to deal with spam applications.
yea, no.
if you’re a small business and are getting an “overwhelming” number of underqualified apps, then you’re probably trying to find a masters degree holder to take an associates degree position. regardless, sorting through apps/resumes is part of the process of running a business. the entire world isn’t obliged to make your job easier. fuck that. i have no sympathy whatsoever
That’s the cost of the companies hiring and firing a fuckton of people at once. If they don’t want that, they can give us stability. If they dont like the mass posting on their platforms, they can start having a more humane process.
Shoving it onto the consumer is just dumb. Plenty of very qualified people need to apply to hundreds of jobs to get one. Plenty of companies wasting time posting jobs they’ll never fill. He didn’t think this through one bit, and hiding the criticism behind “it’s just a thought” doesn’t make the criticism less valid.
It also tells us a lot about him for even thinking it was an idea. He’s completely disconnected with the realities of job hunting and the market.
Saying the problem is just because people hire and fire too often is such a massive oversimplification. If that was the main factor, the market wouldn’t be anywhere near as bad as it is, and it wouldn’t take hundreds of applications just to get an interview. Theres a whole plethora of issues from governments of developed nations usually adding loopholes to labor laws for foreign workers to supress wages, to the complete lack of competition/antitrust enforcement, to the increased push from companies and moronic liberatarians to remove social safety nets forcing people into abusive jobs, to the number of buinesses that have discovered that they can just use postings to collect valuable data rather than to hire. This is what has caused the market to break down - bad employee retention doesn’t help, but that alone would be a small scale problem that weighs down the company practicing it.
If they dont like the mass posting on their platforms, they can start having a more humane process.
That was the reason I was complaining - even companies trying to hire honestly and humanely can’t function at this point. The whole system is starting to come apart because the few at the top are too greedy and incompetent to even attempt to fix things. We need actual, enforced worker protections, and we need those in power to stop trying to prop up megacompanies, or the system will just continue to cave in on itself.
Waaaaaahhhhh :'( We shat in the pool for years and now we can’t go swimming because other people think it’s okay to shit in our pool, too!
nO oNe wAnTs tO WorK aNyMoRe
Points out that companies are no longer advertising jobs.
Still finds a way to blame jobseekers.
Boot can’t really taste that good, can it? Not to kink shame, but is it that you simply enjoy being stomped on?
Sure, and taking an in person interview or home assignment should be paid as well then to signal us that company is serious and it’s not a fake opening
OK. But I also want 20 dollars for every time a recruiter sends me job spam.
Pay me double fee every time a recruiter sends me a job post for a role that isn’t actually hiring and the company is using just to ”test the job market”. A company that is always hiring should have to pay extra tax for wasting unemployed people’s time.
This is a weird post.
The first paragraph is bonkers.
The second paragraph is essentially just trying to cover his ass.
Though, from a philosophical standpoint, there isn’t anything wrong with asking this. On the other hand, if it really was his position to frame this as a thought experiment, the question would have been posed differently the first time around.
This is really annoying because the purpose of philosophising on things is to be allowed to ask questions like this.
A polarising figure, Sam Harris once said in an interview “What’s wrong with eating babies? If we have too many babies lying around, and we want to eat them, why can’t we?”*
Some people (including Alex Jones) took that and ran with it: “Sam Harris defends cannabalising babies”, even though the entire point of his statement was to demonstrate how laymen should stay the fuck away from philosophy because they cannot understand the question is designed to establish a moral foundation.
- note, the clip is satirical beyond the quote I linked, the channel is literally called “out of context”
The full interview is here for full disclosure. Though I’ll warn you. You’ll lose brain cells watching Cenk try to deliberately misinterpret Sam to make him look like a villain.
Yeah, ngl I’m entertaining myself just thinking about this concept of exchanging something (not necessarily money) between applicant and company. It creates finite number of applications able to be created which would greatly reduce the number of applications they would need to go through, but it guaranteeing an interview basically negates the time it saves for the company, however it definitely benefits the applicant.
The problem with this sort of system is that it doesn’t take into effect the people who are desperate for a job and need the most help. In a system where those people are taken care of in other ways, then it’d be a sorta good system especially if it’s not money being exchanged between applicant and company, but maybe rather a cryptographic token or something.
If I had to guess, I think a system like this would probably worsen the workforce as a whole.
Time is money. Even if I don’t get the job, I feel I should still get paid a minimum of an hourly wage for the waste of my time.
I need money. Too bad I don’t have any money.
What if instead companies paid someone to review applications? It takes >10s to skim a resume. Even if you spend a full minute per resume and get 500 reesumes for a job, that’s less than 1 work day
And while we’re here: companies should be required to compensate people for work done for the company, which includes attending interviews and doing labor (e.g. code tests)
