On Wednesday, the US Senate will hold a vote on whether to approve the Pentagon’s request to send another $20bn in armaments to Israel, after a year in which the Biden administration has supplied billions of dollars of arms used in Israel’s devastating war on Gaza.
Among the weapons to be approved are 120mm tank rounds, high explosive mortar rounds, F-15IA fighter aircraft, and joint direct attack munitions, known as JDAMs, which are precision systems for otherwise indiscriminate or “dumb” bombs.
Separate resolutions are being brought forward for each weapon type, including its cost to US taxpayers. However, together, the initiative is known as the Joint Resolutions of Disapproval (JRDs).
As a result of intensive lobbying from pro-Israel groups like Aipac and the Democratic Majority For Israel, no arms transfer to Israel has been blocked.
The resolutions likely to gain the highest levels of support are expected to involve the tank rounds, which have been responsible for killing hundreds of civilians in northern Gaza in particular, and the JDAMs, which caused the death of well-known figures such as Reuters journalist Issam Abdallah in southern Lebanon, and six-year-old Hind Rajab in Gaza City.
Here let me fix the headline for you:
US Senate
to votewill vote no on Bernie Sanders-led effort to stop arms sales to IsraelThere. That way people won’t get the wrong impression, like that any of this fucking matters.
At least we’ll get to see which Democratic members of the genocide caucus need primary challengers in the next election cycle. Supporting Netanyahu isn’t going to get more popular as the genocide intensifies.
No we won’t. I mean, you might, but no one pays attention to voting records anymore. If it even comes to a vote, no one’s going to hold anyone’s feet to the fire on how they vote on a bill doomed to go nowhere.
This. Is. Meaningless. I can’t stress that enough.
If it’s meaningless and no one will pay attention, there’s no reason to object to doing it.
Well they rejected the bill. Did you really pay attention to who voted it down? Do you really care? Even if you go look it up, will it in any way change your actions moving forward? Will you vote any differently or support different candidates based on this?
Again, meaningless.
Ok. So why are you so angry about something meaningless?
Maybe I’m angry about meaningless things being done by our elected officials that are of no help to anyone. Like, if my house was burning down and the fire department showed up and the firefighters started spitting into the fire instead of using the hoses, I might also be a bit upset.
It’s interesting when you have chosen to start being upset.
Even if they pass it, It’s getting repealed right away in January. This is far too little too late.
Yep. The Trump victory means any attempt whatsoever to hold Netanyahu back is completely meaningless.
I mean they had 4 years
And now Trump has four years in which they’ll start doing to the West Bank what they’re doing to Gaza, and Trump will also support Russia and abandon Ukraine because he has a hardon for Putin. Trans folk will be locked up for pedophilia and pedophiles will get pardoned. Leftists will be locked up what’s left of press freedom and women’s rights will be abolished tariffs will push up prices and the fossil fuel industry that started the world inflation project will get free government money. But I have the feeling you’re going to want to tell me more about how Harris has all the same policies as Trump or something.
It’s not going to be just four years. This is going to get real ugly real fast.
Maybe… maybe not. Letting do what they want is in line with trump. But giving money away isn’t. So you never know for sure. And isreal probably has enough things stockpiled anyway.
Oh I’m all for them doing it. I’m not trying to say not to do it. If nothing else it will probably bring a lot of Arab Americans back to the Democrats. I’m just bitter because if they had told AIPAC where to go and passed it months ago then I’m pretty sure we’d have at least one swing state. And showing any kind of fire, instead of, “Things will remain the same because we don’t see anything wrong with the direction of the country!”, would probably have brought more people to the polls in every swing state. I can’t guarantee it would have turned into a win, but it wouldn’t have been a fucking rout.
Never forget the blame for trump ever becoming president in the first place was the DNC let Hillary take over while the primaries were still happening in 2015.
Her campaign literally had approval for anything the DNC said or did.
Shoving neo liberals down America’s throats is just letting Republicans win. But the people running the party care more about keeping wealthy donors happy than winning elections.
We can’t keep going down this path.
He filled stadiums with his message, she couldn’t fill half a highscool gym. It’s time for a new party on the actual left.
We don’t need a new party.
We need to get the neo liberals out of leadership positions at the DNC.
We’re the party of FDR, not billionaires and fossil fuel corporations.
Changing a party from the inside when its leadership is Nancy Pelosi and Hillary Clinton is a tough ask. When push comes to shove every democrat falls in line for the center right candidate. Including the ‘progressives’.
When push comes to shove every democrat falls in line for the center right candidate.
“Democrats” aren’t enough to win. We need the people who normally aren’t engaged, and the most common reason they give is "both parties only care about the rich’.
Dems continually moving to the right just depresses turnout and allows Republicans to win
Including the ‘progressives’.
Buddy, progressives hold their noses and show up to vote for the least worse option. Personally I’ve been doing it for decades.
Progressives aren’t the problem, they’re some of the most politically engaged people in America.
They just get blamed by the neo liberals everytime a neoliberal loses.
Because:
We need the people who normally aren’t engaged, and the most common reason they give is "both parties only care about the rich’.
Dems continually moving to the right just depresses turnout and allows Republicans to win
If the DNC wants wins elections, they need to start giving Dem voters what they want, not aiming for “slightly more than trump would do”.
Doesn’t matter that they should still vote D, the politically disengaged won’t vote unless they want the candidate to win or the incumbent out of office.
When a moderate Dem is in office, that means Republicans win the election
It’s very very important we finally learn this lesson. So I’m willing to put some time in to help you understand, even if it’s incredibly frustrating explaining this for the millionth time.
I’m willing to put the time in help.
Buddy, progressives hold their noses and show up to vote for the least worse option. Personally I’ve been doing it for decades.
Rewarding Democrats bad behavior is what got you into this mess.
No, neoliberals and Republicans working together to destroy campaign fundraising regulations is what led us down this path.
The wealthy just buy both parties now in the primary so they don’t have to even worry about the general.
Not holding our noses and voting for the least worse option just means the Republican wins the general. That won’t make the DNC change the type of candidate they run, they’d rather lose to a Republican and keep their positions at the DNC.
So we try to fix things in the primary by getting a progressive.
If we cant then in the general, we still vote D to mitigate the amount of damage.
Like, that’s not just what I do, it’s what literally every progressive I know in real life has been doing for decades now.
What have you been doing if not that?
By holding your nose instead of organizing around alternatives you are perpetuating the crisis.
Or as Briahna Joy Gray worded more aptly yesterday;
I’m afraid that you’re organizing people into a burning house.
is it really that hard to change? I think if push came to shove, both of them would fall over, they’re octogenarians.
We need to get the neo liberals out of leadership positions at the DNC
And how do you suggest we do that?
The same way the Tea Party primaried out moderate Republicans.
Show up and vote.
Show up and vote
The same way the Tea Party primaried out moderate Republicans.
Democrats protect centrist incumbents and ONLY centrist incumbents. When they have primaries at all.
Show up and vote.
For who you’re ordered to and didn’t have a say in.
The RNC saw moderates kicked out by voters in primaries, and candidates made sure to run.
Why can’t the DNC and progressive voters do the same?
Why can’t the DNC and progressive voters do the same?
Because the DNC is structured explicitly to prevent progressive challengers.
There are many examples, but one big one is the DNC vendor banlist. The DNC says that any vendors who work with progressive primary challengers will be banned from any future work with the party.
This means that progressive challengers often cannot find vendors to do basic things like print flyers and signs, and finding experienced staff to hire is nearly impossible. And of course, “centrist” candidates have not been bothered by this.
And then at the top of the DNC you have hundreds of superdelegates and party officials who are overwhelmingly center right or rightwing. These people cannot be voted out directly.
Because the moderates running the DNC would rather keep control of the party with a republican president than let a progressive into the general.
If a progressive wins the general, they get to nominate DNC leadership, and if the DNC fights it, that’s four years for the Dem president to start a new party in retaliation.
08 Obama was a wake up call for the DNC. Unfortunately what they learned wasn’t how to win an election, it was what they need to do to keep their position as leaders for the only other viable option besides fascism.
And unfortunately for everyone living in America, for them to hold party control, it means every four years a fascist gets elected, and when a moderate Dem does win, they don’t actually fix anything.
But when the DNC lets foreign governments, billionaires, and corporations throw millions into primary campaigns supporting both a D and R to guarantee they always win regardless of general results…
Why the fuck are you still blaming voters?
AOC and the squad got in there. Some of them got voted out during primaries because progressives were no shows. If progressives can’t show up to vote during primaries, I don’t know how we’re expected to take a general election.
We need to build an actual movement.
I mean I’m not happy about it but Trump might purge a good chunk of them
I don’t think they’ll get filled with progressives if Trump does that.
If the goal is to remove and replace all party leadership, non-compliant party members, and administrative staff, why not just make a new party? Are you just really attached to the name on your ship of Theseus?
We need to rebuild social capital. FDR didn’t just happen by himself, he had a backing of growing labor movement, and a much more community-oriented, civically-involved America.
We have that…
Like, you don’t need to convince voters that shit is broken, everyone is well aware shit is broken.
There’s just not an option that will honestly try to fix the root problem fucking everything up:
Wealth Inequality
When both parties are pro-corps and anti-worker…
The problem isn’t growing a movement of voters, it’s finding a way to get a candidate past the primary so they can win the general.
Every election there’s two fights:
-
Fight the DNC moderates in the primary
-
Fight the Republicans and the DNC moderates in the general
If we don’t win the first one, there’s a very strong chance the candidate who makes it to the general won’t be able to beat the Republican in the general. Because they’re not what the politically disengaged want.
The good news tho is that there is very very few voters who would even want to pull another PUMA and vote R in the general if a progressive makes it. Some will 100% try it. And the media will shit their pants trying to convince us it won’t work.
But it can still work just as well today as it did 16 years ago when they voted R instead of for a Black guy with a progressive campaign.
There’s very few neoliberal voters, it’s just the people running the party pretend that’s the base.
We have that…
We absolutely do not have that. We have a couch-dwelling population that hasn’t been civically engaged in a meaningful way in fifty years and running. Social capital has atrophied since the 60s by every discernible metric.
Maybe with the people you spend time with.
But lots of people are putting work in, all over the country.
Just don’t expect to hear about it from the party, or any of the big media organizations owned by billionaires for the express purpose of maintaining the status quo so they can keep their ill gotten wealth.
Quick edit:
Not sure why you’re talking about the 60s like everyone was hippies…
The majority of the population back then was fighting school busing like Biden was to preserve segregation, or the ones screaming insults and throwing rocks at children for going to the school they were told to attend.
Like, it’s important to understand the present, but you can’t do that when you’re obviously confused about the past…
Maybe with the people you spend time with.
If you’re spending your time with a large amount of civically involved, mutual-aid-providing people in America, you’re actually in the minority.
EDIT: Not sure why you’re talking about the 60s like everyone was hippies…
EDIT: Because I’m talking about statistical measures of things. Not feels and vibes like you’re thinking. It’s a well-studied subject, but I know nobody believes in reading or studying anymore.
-
First we need to do [thing that will take decades and which centrists will oppose every step of the way], and once that’s complete, we’ll come up with a new prerequisite,
Yeah these are things that “centrists” can oppose…talking to your neighbors, going to council meetings, joining a union, starting a poker game, or joining a social group. /s
Edit:
I mean hell start a podcast even. There’s literally no place I even know of in my town to build any of this so-called solidarity keyboard leftists talk about as if it’s ubiquitous. I live in a top ten city in one of the most left-leaning states and all I see is “let’s go Brandon” bumper stickers and maga stickers plastered on the backside of my street signs.
Maybe, just maybe, online leftists are full of it and America isn’t on the brink of some great socialist revolution. But who am I kidding, it’s inevitable, right guys? It springs up automatically out of the dirt like dandelions. /s
At this point it would be easier for the progressives in the party to show they don’t approve the status quo (hahahahaha) by forming a new party (even if it means giving the keys to the White House to the Republicans) instead of trying to change the existing party from the inside.
You know why it won’t happen? Because they don’t mind the status quo as long as they get elected.
FDR was the internment camp guy, right?
Edit: Sadly I don’t find the downvotes as a Japanese American very surprising.
Progressive as long as we ignore atrocities is a weak position.
…
That’s how progress works…
When someone is talking about a progressive from literally 80 fucking years ago, hopefully there’s some stuff they did almost a century ago that modern society finds distasteful
If there isn’t, that likely just means society hasn’t made any progress in the almost century that’s gone by.
I truly hope that makes sense, if not please let me know what’s still causing confusion. This is an important point that comes up regularly, so I’m willing to put some time in to clear this up for you
like today’s democrats, fdr ignored the constructive criticisms that would have prevented such a painful episode; the democrats back then are more alike than unlike to the democrats of today.
Found a policy of his that you actually like?
I liked FDRs policies for the most part. It’s just easy to forget that he went out of his way to imprison Japanese Americans.
Yes, I’m sure that’s why you brought it up.
How could you possibly know my motivations?
I think it’s safe to say that I can be both progressive and critical of authoritarian policies. We can both be elated at FDRs progressive polices that helped usher unprecedented rights to some citizens while condemning him for imprisoning Americans.
FDR was the 10th wealthiest President in history, and T. Roosevelt was 4th. They were the neo-liberals of their time, even if they did some things to improve the working class.
Stadiums don’t vote. The last few weeks before the election there were several posts on lemmy about big crowds attending Haris events while Trump struggled to fill venues and bored his attendees. We now now how that turned out…
I agree - too many people mistakenly believe the Dems can be reformed into an actual leftist party. This just isn’t going to happen. They’re corrupt to the core - a center-right fundraising organization eager to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory, and they would rather the country burn than do anything against the wishes of their wealthy donors.
Okay. Then you gotta convince every Democrat and then some to agree to leave the party AND join the same new one in order to beat the GOP in a FPTP system. Or your goal is to dilute the power of the corrupt Democrats instead of eliminating them.
Weeding a single corrupt party is easier than creating an entirely new party while simultaneously competing with two existing corrupt parties in a FPTP system.
Nah, I don’t see it playing out that way at all. A genuine populist revolution will easily be able to pull working class voters from all walks of life. In fact, I strongly believe that a true leftist movement in America would force the merger of the neocons and neolibs for their very survival.
For democrats, the problem is that the establishment leverages the DNC delegates to ensure no true populist ever sees the light of day. Plus the usual media smear jobs, etc. Regarding those elitist dems who are in charge and keep forcing these corrupt centrists down our throats, giving us only 5-10% of what’s promised each election at best…they can do whatever they want, which will likely be turning conservative to try for lowering their taxes. We don’t need them, and personally, I don’t want them either.
A genuine populist revolution will easily be able to pull working class voters from all walks of life
I just don’t think this is possible with a 3rd party candidate in our system. You’ll never pull GOP voters this way, which means you have to pull a shitload of Democratic voters all in the same direction.
I wholly agree with you the issues with the DNC, but there’s a solution: we show up in the primaries. The DNC is corrupt, but they aren’t flipping primary votes. We can absolutely elect different people to run the party with enough numbers. And if you can’t get enough people to do that with a genuine populist message, how are you ever going to start an entirely new party and convince people to show up?
What’s wrong with the Socialism and Liberation Party?
Biden making sure to take a massive shit on his legacy before setting it on fire. His 50 useless years in politics boiled down to his essential self: an empty suit doused in rancid cowardice
This is all very consistent with his legacy.
Not a US citizen here, are these open votes? Can we see what portion of democrats voted yes and no etc
Yes, you can actually see the disappointing number of so-called liberals who make a mockery of the concepts of humanitarianism, anti-racism and the rule of law.
Not if they call a voice vote. However, standard Roberts Rules says that anybody can object to the results of the voice vote and then it goes to actually recording things. Voice votes are meant to move things along when it’s obvious a vast majority are in favor, not hide who is trying to pull something.
Money to Israel= BAD
Unlimited money to Ukraine: GOOD
This but unironically
Because funding the nation (Israel) actively genociding a population of innocent civilians is toooootally congruent with funding another nation (Ukraine) that’s actively being genocided to try and help them resist their oppressors (Russia).
But the peepee tapes??
Because Genocide = BAD and defence against a war of aggression = GOOD
That comparison doesn’t make any sense.
Imagine being this dense.
Hi, Senator.
