Nah Lemmy would be bitching about Biden not cancelling student loan debt despite Trump judges being the ones blocking it.
“Status quo” wasn’t enough to get people off their asses. Well, we’re about to see the opposite of that. Congrats.
Biden gave it a shot, got stymied, and walked away. Hey, a weak attempt is better than nothing, but we sure would have liked to see him try harder. I don’t blame him for failing, but he certainly didn’t give it his all.
Walked away? He tried multiple angles to get at the same end goal, most of which are/were held up in court.
Removed by mod
Removed by mod
You still don’t understand that this isn’t about left vs right, Red vs Blue, old Vs young, black Vs white.
While there are still people who are dying or just existing just to prop up the wealth of a few people then we all lose.
I think you’ve misunderstood me because I agree with you 100% on that. Though I would argue that that IS left vs right.
We have the same issue in my country with conservative vs labour. They are two sides of the same coin really.
This is maybe oversimplifying things, however - I will never fully understand how somebody hears a candidate talk only about who they will hurt first, while their opposition talks about how to help the most people…and the guy who wants to increase the human suffering wins.
I mean, logically, yeah I guess I can understand. But at the same time, I will never get it. :P
The Democrats candidates talked at length about how they were tougher on immigration, more supportive of Israel’s genocide, and favoured by sadistic fascists like Dick Cheney. It was literally both parties arguing that they would be the ones to increase human suffering the most
Oh for fuck sake, really?
What the fuck ever; I’ll still take the side that talks less about causing harm. Or any option other than Mr Orange Weirdo. The senile shit stain answers every question with a list of people he needs to cause harm to.
No, the Democrats are not “the same”.
Also, maybe read the room and just delete your stupid account?
A both sides argument from a <24 hr old account.
Very compelling stuff.
More compelling than your lazy ad-hominem
Just pointing out facts my friend. I find it odd you feel attacked though.
Oh please, spare me the smug redditisms
Oh honey, go back to hexbear.
Why did you even leave Reddit?
I come from an immigrant family. We came legally, sure. But the fight is the same: provide a better life and better opportunities for the next generation.
It blows my mind how someone can change this to paint the immigrant as bad. All while there are American citizen business men hiring the immigrants. Go after the business men?
I don’t get it. Wouldn’t people want to look past the place of birth and look into someone’s character? Surely a person fighting for a better life for their family is more honorable than a businessman looking to cut corners.
I’ve met conservatives with such deep hatred for “illegals” that I sincerely cannot understand where they’re coming from.
It’s all about fear. If the propagandists can play on your fears, you will learn to hate whoever they tell you to; but there’s also greed, which essentially is the fear of not having enough/more/whatever.
You see, money was not invented to be used as currency. Nor does it represent the “value of labor” or any of that crap. Money is fear made manifest. It only exists so that you will be afraid of not having enough. Even those sociopathic billionaires we all wanna eat only get that twisted and fucked up inside, just cause they’re still afraid of money, or at least that someone else might have more (I think? You have to be a completely useless shitheel to amass that much wealth).
And finally, lack of a sense of personal responsibility. So much easier if it’s someone else’s fault you didn’t make it big.
Oh, and the hatred of a conservative will never make sense. They have imported the thoughts and ideals of another whole cloth, all because they’re afraid of being on the losing team. There is no logic to such things; it’s a very insidious form of brainwashing.
They have been sold a lie that all the changes in their life have been the fault of immigrants, poor people, technology etc. The life they were promised doesn’t exist anymore and they fear change, and they are provided with a scapegoat be it immigration or so called liberals. It is easier to fear and hate something than to look at the truth. The wealthy and elite have been steadily taking more and more in their greed and lust for power.
President Lyndon B. Johnson once said:
"If you can convince the lowest white man he’s better than the best colored man, he won’t notice you’re picking his pocket. Hell, give him somebody to look down on, and he’ll empty his pockets for you.
This has just expanded a bit more to immigrants as well in recent decades.
The hubris is terrifying, is it not?
I mean where is the endgame? To be so consumed by fear/hatred (same thing) that you willfully set society on a path to destruction, but to convince yourself your pile of invisible coins will save you from the consequences of trying to live on a dying planet.
The endgame isn’t about what society has, it’s whatever makes the specific person comfortable.
deleted by creator
All of this is just a distraction anyway. It’s rich vs poor always has been. We have a huge group of people that should really be allies but are brainwashed against their own interests. It’s easy to say they’re on the wrong side but we should really be looking to mend the divide in ways that we can rather than further it by stating how morally superior we are.
This rich vs. poor thing would be a hell of a lot more believable if there weren’t so many poor people who were gigantic fucking bigots.
How do you mend a divide between people who exist and people who hate their existence?
Of course rich folk will look for allies among poor folk. Play off the people against each other. This strategy is centuries old … no wait, millennia old.
You don’t mend a divide. That’s pointing to the divide as the problem, when the real problem is discrimination.
No, the real problem is hatred. Bigots hate the people they are bigoted against. That is not a rich vs. poor thing. I’ve gotten attacked by more than one poor bigot. Plenty of people from minority communities have.
This whole idea where everyone but the rich will get together and sing kumbaya and then win the class war and create a utopia is ridiculously naive and, as far as I can think, only comes from people who have never had a bigot get into their face and hate them because of who they are.
by attacking the media structures and funding that manipulate them. (this is not a fix all solution. obviously. but it is taking action against the most materially funded arm of the propagation of conservative values. i hope it can be one of many tools leftists use to push for justice and dignity.)
Their parents manipulate them.
The “media structures” aren’t the ones telling them to yell the F- word at queer people or just straight up murder them.
in a crazy twist, both parents and conservative media exist. and what world do you live in? i see conservative media call for homophobia and homophobic violence all the fucking time.
And those parents would still exist regardless.
More to the point, these bigots exist right now.
You want queer people and people of color to make up with people who would literally kill them because they’re both not rich. Do you think that’s what those bigots want? Do you think if a queer couple went over to some violent queerphobe’s home in a trailer park with a bouquet of flowers it would go well for them?
Do you know how many queer people are murdered in the U.S. every year? Here’s a link to the 2024 list.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_violence_against_LGBTQ_people_in_the_United_States#2024
It’s not the billionaires doing the murdering.
I offered a systemic solution to one element of a systemic problem and now you are getting angry at me that my single-faceted solution doesn’t cover every minute facet of social change. I am sorry that you cannot accept a single marginal suggestion without going into full on rage mode. Ending the conversation here.
Removed by mod
Do you think it’s a coincidence our media is full of low quality “Woke Shit” that pretends to be progressive but is just the “Worst of Rainbow Capitalism”
That was those bastards manufacturing consent. “Sorry guys, we have to censor your media the gays made us do it!”
Do you really think bigots would somehow disappear if the media disappeared?
Bigotry has existed since the first proto-hominid caved in the head of the other proto-hominid on the other side of the hill because his fur was a different shade of brown.
There’s not some magical point where everyone will live in harmony and unite against the rich.
Nope, but it wouldn’t be at THIS level. We somehow went from “Mainstream Trans Acceptance” to “Democrats thirst for Transblood because it’s THEIR fault Trump won! Because they were playing women’s sports while diddling people in the bathroom!” over-fucking-night.
When did we have mainstream trans acceptance? I’d love to hear about that utopian era.
Agreed. It’s uncanny how no news source wants to call out the class divide and instead focuses on the partisan divide
It’s not that strange when you consider they are a major tool in the class war. We do still have elections, and so whoever the ownership class can’t buy they need to have their outlets convince us not to vote for.
There is no “unbiased” media when it’s corporate media.
When they stop trying to hurt my friends, I’ll be the first to present an olive branch. Yes, we should create class solidarity, but you can educate the willfully ignorant.
Yeah but the she-devil Kamala supports post-birth abortions.
- a family member
they don’t even fucking know what abortion means.
I wish this was an exaggeration
yeah, i mean it’s obvious because they keep saying aborting babies which semantically don’t make sense. abortion refers to aborting the pregnancy. post-birth abortion is an oxymoron because there is no pregnancy post-birth.
Right. They’re willing to believe doctors are slitting infants’ throats in order to justify their worldview. They don’t even question if that’s happening. A long time ago some woman on Facebook told me some absurd number of abortions that were happening every year. When I did the math, I found that if her number was true, that would mean literally on average, 40% of every woman on the planet capable of being pregnant was getting pregnant AND having an abortion. Every fucking year.
When I pointed that out to her, she basically shrugged and reiterated that it didn’t matter about specifics, so many children were being murdered that it had to be the top priority to stop it.
How the fuck do you talk sense into someone willing to believe something absurd and then when basic math illustrates that the belief is absurd, they couldn’t care less?
You can’t logic people out of an opinion they didn’t logic themselves into, or however that saying goes. these women will get their own abortion when they need it and still spit on the doctor and call the other patients whores literally on their way out of the clinic.
Yeah, I guess I was naive. I didn’t expect this woman to change her whole view on the spot. But I just found it stunning that she could know she was spreading an absolute lie without a doubt and be completely unfazed
You don’t. You can’t out-crazy them with logic. It’s a fruitless endeavor.
I too support post birth abortions of healthcare CEOs
My Catholic-ass mom reads a Catholic-ass newspaper and recently told me with complete confidence that Hillary Clinton was the “partial-birth abortion queen”. How do you even have a conversation with someone who’s ingested so much propaganda?
Gift them a birthing bed with a built in guillotine?
Jokes aside, this is why we should bring back fire bombs.
“She can’t even string a sentence together”, said after her town hall late in the campaign.
It’s like they never fucking listened to a single Trump rally.
Say what you will about Trump he can definitely string a sentence together, hell he can’t help himself from stringing 20 into one.
Oh ya, they call that the"weaving" effect, as if it’s some sort of special talent just for him. He can masterfully start talking, go off on twenty different subjects, and have them all flow together perfectly in his conclusion.
Sure, this can be done. Not by him.
Yeah that’s not a special talent, that’s something people with adhd have to learn not to do
I take medication every day of my life in order to NOT do exactly that.
Exactly, when I can do it I can’t drive safely or pay attention
Wouldn’t opposing post-birth abortions mean more gun control?
Sadly, a lot of them voted for Trump because they think he’s going to “fix it”. The sad thing is they just trust him to figure it out once in office.
Well according to Americans a guy with “concepts of a plan” is apparently more qualified than any woman ever, that’s what I learned from 2016 and 2024…
Hillary Clinton and Kamala Harris != Why women ever
America has made it clear, they’d rather elect Literally Hitler over Ima Woe Mann.
Ok, but that’s just vacuous hyperbole
Trump’s one of the most reviled and universally hated figures in American History
He won Presidency twice over qualified female candidates
Trump’s one of the most reviled and universally hated figures in American History
See what I mean about vacuous hyperbole?
He won Presidency twice over qualified female candidates
Two shitty neoliberal ghouls do not represent the length and breadth of the female gender
Obama won his senate seat because his opponent had an affair. Everyone said he was too young, but then he went on to beat Hillary and McCain.
Bill Clinton won the democratic primary because everyone thought Heart was going to win, then HE had an affair. Everyone said he was too young, but then he went on to beat Bush.
Al Gore, John Kerry, Hillary Clinton, and Joe Biden won their primary because “IT WAS THEIR TURN”. Biden only won because Republican rigged it to suppress mail in voting, but that suppressed the wrong group in the wake of COVID. I think we all have our theories on Harris. My point: I think it is time for someone that isn’t “THEIR TURN” to become our next nominee.
Biden won the highest turnout election in more than a century, and Al Gore’s win was stolen by the Bush clique. This is gross reframing or even reimagining of events to suit your narrative.
Al Gore is not like the others. Yes you might say he became the nominee because it was his turn. But, he also had extremely good policy ideas that were very different from “not being Trump “.
And he won both the popular and electoral votes
The Democrats are never able to pass these things while they’re in power, though.
Like yes there is Obamacare and some loan forgiveness, but it’s drops in the bucket compared to what Republicans are cooking up with Project 2025
That’s not the full picture, the republicans house and senate votes have a clear history of obstructionism for the last 30 years
Just look at any vote after George HW Bush and then compare that to public sentiment about what they are voting on.
Yeah, they can get project 2025 done because they brainwashed half of society to support them.
I agree with you that Republicans have been big on obstructionism. And Democrats have never taken serious steps to deal with it, because corporate Democrats like the obstructionism. They want to pretend to be left wing, but if they actually had to pass left-wing policies, that would piss off their corporate funders. Obviously this is a vast simplification, but I think the best example was Obama pushing for the ACA instead of NHS. You can argue that it would have been hard to get NHS through, but it would have solved the problems that are even bigger now than they were 10 years ago. No way big pharma was going to allow that. There’s too much money to be made when you sell insurance and then allow your customers to die anyway.
Removed by mod
Then present a better option. Vote in the primaries. Start building support for a good 3rd party. Fucking hell start building a socialist revolution! Do something other than not voting and calling it a day
Removed by mod
Hey dude, listing off a couple blue dogs and then saying random fucking words doesnt mean anything.
They’re not randomly listed. They intentionally serve as spoilers to progressive legislation.
Did I say the blue dogs were listed off randomly? Or did I say what came after was more or less random? Throwing put buzzwords is random, even if folks in the ingroup understand it is still random.
Okay buddy!
Removed by mod
Removed by mod
This is literally provably false. Biden, for all his faults, pushed through a student loan cancelation program.
It was blocked by the Trump controlled Supreme Court.
Elections matter. If Trump didn’t put 3 Supreme Court justices in place to block it people would be better off.
Don’t both sides this. It might make you feel smart but it results in harm.
There’s an argument to be made that Biden only pushed that stuff through knowing it’d get blocked. Long time tactic by politicians to introduce big things to look good when they know it’ll fail, yet it’s rarely introduced during times when they had full control.
I mean you can make an argument, but I think the burden of proof would be on you there.
The last time the Dems had control they passed the ACA.
Ooh the ACA!
You mean that Heritage Foundation created Healthcare band-aid that was originally implemented by a Republican governor that bent over backwards to further enshrine for profit private insurers, like United Healthcare, in our perverse deathcare system where the primary issue was the profit motive making American Healthcare unsustainably expensive with the some of the poorest results in the developed world because greed?
That plan Obama instutituted after the people screamed “Please help us supposedly leftwing Obama from this for profit healthcare hellscape! Here have a super majority!”
👏Yeah, that worked a treat, Americans are really satisfied with their healthcare now.
Now go ahead and tell me about how they couldn’t whip Joe Manchin into shape so it’s all they could do, because there’s always an excuse. Decade after decade passes, and the people are told they just need to be more patient. Maybe they’ll decide to make an equitable economy and non-exploitative Healthcare in a few thousand years.
Good fucking grift, by both parties. Left and right since Reagan have been little more than a sideshow to distract from class occupation, class subjugation, and class slaughter for profit.
I vote blue out of the tiniest of harm reduction, not hope, because rainbow ribbons are preferable to kids in cages in this dystopia, but don’t kid yourself on their social issue bickering, they take the same orders from the same bribers on the economy.
We don’t get a vote that would cost the owners significant blood money. They own this fucking place, and all of us.
because rainbow ribbons are preferable to kids in cages in this dystopia
Btw, I’d just like to drop a friendly reminder that those camps with the kids in cages started under Obama, continued under Trump (duh), and continued under Biden and in fact ramped up, not down, and they’ll continue under trump again, I’m guessing, and whoever is after that too, so idk about the “preferable to,” seems more like “kids in rainbow painted cages.”
Fair point.
What’s the problem you seem to have with gay rights here? Going out of your way to label that one party is supporting “rainbow ribbons” seems a little iffy considering all the trans people that are about to get systemically targeted by the right-wing that won an election basically on a smear campaign against us.
I’m saying rainbow ribbons don’t feed the homeless trans person dying in the gutter on the street.
I’m saying it’s a feel good thing that doesn’t materially help them or anyone that needs material help to continue to be alive. Oh, you’re starving to death? Well here, I’ll affirm your identity and not feed you.
How about giving those trans people universal Healthcare without private insurers denying their claims for profit? Nope. Here’s a rainbow ribbon though, because that won’t piss off my wealthy bribers.
Acknowledging anyone as they wish to be acknowledged is just basic decency and courtesy. Help your fucking Contituents in a material way is what I’m saying.
The fact that you frame “affirming your identity” as such a pathetic offering shows how little you think of LGBT folks in this context tbh.
Look, I get the anger, but keep your sentiment pointed in a way that doesn’t imply that gay people are the enemy soaking up valuable time and resources, or at least listen to us when we say we’re uncomfortable with you painting the symbols of our self-determination as cheap tokens to be eschewed from leftism if it wants to help people.
The rainbows aren’t hurting anyone.
You write a lot of stuff that I don’t think is relevant here. I’ll just say that while the ACA was problematic (ie the public option was stripped out) it did meaningfully improve people’s lives.
Before the ACA pre existing conditions exemptions were a thing. If you find out that you have cancer you suddenly can not switch health insurance providers because they would say that your cancer was pre existing condition that would be excluded.
When your health insurance is tired to your job this results in literal work here or die of cancer entrapments.
That and things like mandatory mental health coverage are some of the things that improved peoples lives.
If you are too young to remember the situation with healthcare in the USA before the ACA that’s fine. But the ACA was a godsend for people. It’s not perfect but it undeniably helped the most vulnerable people.
This is a long post and I’m not going to read it
I’m sorry for using so many words.
Edit: they changed the above post to no longer have this quote.
It’s ok. And yah. I ended up changing it to be more relevant.
This is literally provably false. Biden, for all his faults, pushed through a student loan cancelation program.
It was blocked by the Trump controlled Supreme Court.
lol.
You might be privileged or young enough where you didn’t have to think about it but yah. You could literally sign up. The program was up and running. Many of my friends signed up and were happy and excited.
Only after it was up and running was it shut down. So yah. Biden did push it through. And yah. The Trump Supreme Court did stop it.
And the end result is it didn’t happen, so how is he wrong that it won’t happen? Supreme Court hasn’t changed.
Because Justices will get old and die. Or they’ll retire and be replaced by someone younger. If it’s a Democrat in the White House, when that happens, we get to push the court leftward. If it’s a Republican, it goes rightward. Thomas and Alito retiring and being replaced by someone 30 years younger solidifies a right-wing majority for decades.
Lol except the dems literally gave the ACA and student debt forgiveness. Want more? Then give them more victories. They need all 3 house of representatives, Senate, and presidency to pass things and they’ve had that for only 6 years of the last 44 years.
The heritage foundation made the ACA for mitt Romney when he was governor of mass. It’s a right wing piece of legislation that was a handout to insurance companies and not universal healthcare.
Student debt? They forgave what, 1% of the absolute worst loans from schools that no longer exist and were committing fraud? Or are you talking about the forgiveness program that denies 99% of applicants?
Want more? Then give them more victories. They need all 3 house of representatives, Senate, and presidency to pass things and they’ve had that for only 6 years of the last 44 years.
And so what’s his name can’t water it down. *Lieberman.
Removed by mod
There’s ALWAYS a spoiler.
Hmmmmmmmmmm how about trying? Nahhhhh you don’t wanna, you just want to say “Dems bad”.
Not to mention this gap in logic. If it was a real spoiler, what would have happened? It wouldn’t have passed at all. But it did, watered down. So not a spoiler, pretty much by definition. It’s a watering down, by definition.
And there wasn’t a spoiler at all for debt forgiveness. It was a packed court. So how about voting so that the GOP can’t pack the court? Another gap in logic.
And all the things that DID pass lol. Green energy, EVs, CHIPS, PACT, etc, etc, etc. No spoiler there. Another gap in logic.
Oh great, a health insurance bill that doesn’t do shit except charge insane premiums and not provide healthcare. And a handout to insurance companies. Great job democrats. Your easily fooled rubes of the blue MAGA persuasion think you’re the best thing since sliced bread…
And we’re back to:
Want more? Then give them more victories. They need all 3 house of representatives, Senate, and presidency to pass things and they’ve had that for only 6 years of the last 44 years.
And so what’s his name can’t water it down. *Lieberman.
Taking a look at your profile, yikes. I have no idea how you aren’t banned yet. Ciao.
Student loans forgiven: $175 Billion
Student loans that would have been forgiven without R fuckery: $430 Billion
Total federal student loan debt: $1.6 Trillion
Hey check out this “both sides bad” centrism over here.
If the Democrat party is the best we can come up with barring some gasoline, they deserve to lie the same pile as the conservatives when the bodies start piling up.
They serve themselves, and on many occasions step aside to let fascism do its thing. Controlled opposition. You all just eat it up.
The spineless Democratic party. Let chaos reign.
Reminder. He pardoned his drug addict son, and you’re going to starve to death.
Exactly. “My nepo failson” was the issue he was willing to defy norms and undercut institutions for, feeding directly into Trumps line that the justice department has been politicized in prosecutions. He didn’t cross that line for;
- Palestine
- Student loan forgiveness
- Budget negotiations/default
- Supreme Court expansion
- Judicial reform/integrity
- Corporate greed excess leading to toxic rail spills or children working in slaughterhouses
The Republicans fight hard and dirty, playing from all angles and he slid backs and took it from them on multiple fronts. Sinema/Manchin holding up a vote? Trump has all his toadies marching to the same music, why can’t we? Tuberville playing obstruction in the Senate? It’s called the bully pulpit for a reason, whilst the president has no actual legislative power he can put a Senator under the microscope if he desired. Biden had no sustained fight in him
Nah I think a lot of people would also be gloating, like obviously fuck trump, Kamala would have been better, they’d be gloating too
Only reason Kamala was better is the simple fact she isn’t actively trying to overthrow the government
The only?
Not being literally perfect makes you the worst possible option to many leftists
Pretty disgusting to boil down peoples rightful criticism of Harris’ support of genocide to just her “not being perfect”
Not remotely what I did and nobody was talking about that specific issue in the comment chain I replied to.
Also still better than Trump but I guess you’re just not intelligent enough for that. I’m not going to waste more time trying to explain that, someone else can try.
Any continuation of Biden like policies is actually pretty damn good.
Apparently it’s “trolling” to think that continuation of Bidens genocidal policy in Gaza isn’t “pretty damn good”
Removed by mod
In comparison, maybe.
No it’s pretty good. Green energy, non competes being banned, student loan forgiveness, etc. As always Dems don’t get the credit.
Just like I said elsewhere; if it’s not literally perfect, it’s just not good enough.
Bidens policies were a lot worse than “not literally perfect”
Removed by mod
I don’t know why you would celebrate something that was never promised and unlikely to happen.
I mean not to feed into the us vs. them mentality, but… it’s kind of obvious we’re better than them on a spiritual level at this point…
they would be celebrating the money
money makes humans forget about humanity
a nation of killers might be the one thing worse than a nation of slavers though they tend to work together
Who is this referring to, both those being killed and those celebrating it?
Liberals and fascists.
Fascist are celebrating how many liberals they’ll get to kill? What’s that referring to?
Trump and his stated goals of ushering in American fascism.
Did they come out with a plan to kill people or what’s this more specifically about?
Are you serious? Do you listen to what maga Republicans say? Musk saying “it’s a battle to the death with the woke mind virus”, trump wanting to put Liz Cheny in front of a firing squad, it goes on and on. And since I doubt you’re asking this in good faith, but for anyone else reading, here’s one of the most conservative writers out there talking about maga violence.
https://www.nytimes.com/2024/02/18/opinion/magas-violent-threats-are-warping-life-in-america.html
Do you listen to what maga Republicans say?
Not really?
And since I doubt you’re asking this in good faith
Why? Should we all just know these things without asking or what?
I was wondering that too. Not arguing or denying, just not sure what they’re referring to.
