• mightyfoolish@lemmy.world
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    6 days ago

    They can worry about the spoiler effect… Or they can worry about the massive amount of people who don’t vote because they feel it’s pointless or barely muster enough care to do it.

    • The Snark Urge@lemmy.world
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      6 days ago

      The fact that these experienced politicians whose judgment you appear to trust, have both decided to work within the existing system should probably sway your opinion of what the optimal strategy is at least a bit more.

      There are usually two parties because the game-theoretic dynamic of this electoral system has a significant channelizing effect on the likeliest outcomes. Once you’ve accepted that reality, the (admittedly unsatisfying) optimal strategy becomes apparent.

      I say this all with zero rancor - I do not like these arguments either, but the logic of it is difficult to see past. I would prefer the system be overthrown entirely but, and this is key, you go into the revolution with the populace that exists - and they’re going to have their own ideas for what comes next. I’m not so sure I’d like what they bring to the table.

      • mightyfoolish@lemmy.world
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        6 days ago

        The fact that these experienced politicians whose judgment you appear to trust, have both decided to work within the existing system should probably sway your opinion of what the optimal strategy is at least a bit more.

        I like them but would I don’t think I would consider them that successful in respective of their peers. This system is literally against them being successful.

        • The Snark Urge@lemmy.world
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          6 days ago

          That’s so.

          A career in politics hasn’t attracted much high quality talent in general, I think they’d be more successful if there was more of a sense of politics being a good option for good people. It mainly attracts scum these days.

      • Ensign_Crab@lemmy.world
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        6 days ago

        “You don’t vote” is what Democrats say to anyone they don’t want to listen to, regardless of whether they actually vote.

        • FlowVoid@lemmy.world
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          6 days ago

          Democrats need to listen to people who vote.

          But the person I replied to said they also need to worry about nonvoters. They don’t. Nonvoters don’t matter.

          • NoneOfUrBusiness@fedia.io
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            6 days ago

            If they follow that logic they’ll never win, because the number of people who will unconditionally vote Dem is demonstrably not enough to win an election.

            • Ensign_Crab@lemmy.world
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              6 days ago

              They don’t care about winning if it means lowering themselves to the level of trying to court voters.

              • FlowVoid@lemmy.world
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                6 days ago

                They court voters all the time. They don’t court nonvoters.

                For the same reason, campaigns don’t depend on getting youth to finally turn out to vote. It’s a strategy that has never worked.

                • Ensign_Crab@lemmy.world
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                  6 days ago

                  They court voters all the time. They don’t court nonvoters.

                  They conveniently designate those they don’t want to listen to as nonvoters, and pay no actual attention to whether the demographics they ignore are voters or not. “They don’t vote” is a pretext and has never been anything else.

                  • FlowVoid@lemmy.world
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                    6 days ago

                    They don’t have to “designate” people as nonvoters. A nonvoter is someone who doesn’t vote. Nonvoters designate themselves.

            • FlowVoid@lemmy.world
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              6 days ago

              Democrats won over 200 federal elections last month. Believe it or not, Harris was not the only Democrat on the ballot.

                • FlowVoid@lemmy.world
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                  6 days ago

                  The point is that “Democrats will never win” is obviously false, since many of them win every year.

                  • NoneOfUrBusiness@fedia.io
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                    6 days ago

                    Are you fucking serious? I have better things to do than engage with whatever this is, but you should really think hard about a lot of things if you really believe what you just said.

          • Ensign_Crab@lemmy.world
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            6 days ago

            When it’s time to decide on policy, they don’t. When assigning blame, they’re the only thing that matters.

            But they are always conveniently whoever the party doesn’t want to listen to.

            • FlowVoid@lemmy.world
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              6 days ago

              The vast majority of nonvoters are politically disengaged, and there’s no evidence that their opinions differ significantly from those of voters.

              • Ensign_Crab@lemmy.world
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                6 days ago

                Ok. So don’t gripe when the groups you don’t pursue because “they don’t vote” don’t vote. And especially don’t gripe when they prove you wrong by voting for your second choice.