My primary argument is that they post hateful content and covid conspiracies and it is irresponsible to platform this by including it in our federation. Secondly we already got rid of lemmygrad. Thirdly, there’s little to be lost in the defederation given the type of stuff being posted over there. Do as thou wilt
Aye and nays pls
Edit: putting the screencaps I posted below here for clarity
I should probably put a content warning so
CW: homophobia, transphobia, and just being a shithead.
Edit 2: let’s try not to downvote people just saying nay. Unless they are making bad faith arguments we should respect their opinions even if we disagree.
Edit 3: Imma be real with y’all, this has been a real shitshow. We gotta work out some kinda single voting infrastructure because the ayes and Nays isn’t efficient at all.
I guess I’ll be one of the first.
Nay, for now.
Defederation should be the last option. After we have exhausted all other options. Because it’s the exchange of ideas, and exposure to other viewpoints, that helps reduce bigotry and hatred.
I’m well aware that a fascist is gonna fascist, no matter what someone tells them. There is no reasoning with them or trying to have a discourse with them because they only want to frustrate you. Those users should be blocked, or better, banned from our instance if possible. But there will be other users of that instance who are regular folk who simply like the idea of free speech. They should not be cut off and left to be turned by the fascists.
Aye. Don’t platform dog whistling.
Edit: Actually I had an experience as a result of exploding-heads because I was looking for an Oregon community and came across their oregon one (archive link), which included demonizing homeless and trans people. I ended up blocking it. This isn’t just a bandwagon. I don’t want others on this instance to be lured into those hateful rabbit holes. I ended up joining the PNW community on lemmy.world
Aye
Aye, and here’s why. Exploding heads are not coming into our space and having discussions in good faith. They are acting as a troll farm and being abusive toward our members, and generally not following the rules of the road laid out for our instance. “Beehaw defederated us and I didn’t like it” isn’t a valid argument as this is a different situation. Beehaw defederated from here because they couldn’t deal with the scale of moderating all the traffic coming from here which including abusive troll accounts. Exploding Heads is going by the alt right playbook and is almost exclusively being abusive, even if it’s a small number of people.
And it is noticable. I see some people arguing that individuals who don’t like that instance should just block it themselves, but that’s not an available function of the threadiverse yet. You’re saying that our server at large should endure abuse coming from that server because someday the functionality may be implemented for individuals to handle it themselves. I don’t think this is a good moderation strategy and will only allow abusive actors to find foothold.
Aye.
After reviewing the instance myself, their federation creates risks for this server falling afoul of the Criminal Code of Canada and the Canadian Human Rights Act.
I understand defederation is a nuclear option, and wait anxiously for improved tools for users to block posts from entire instances if so desired, but I see no benefit in our being federated with this specific instance.
Nay. Just block the instance for your own account if you feel offended. I wholeheartedly agree with you on the examples you’ve shown us. However, this does not warrant censorship for one. And on the other side, if no one is able to convince them due to deplatforming, things won’t ever get better. Thus: Nay.
Things will get better if they can’t share their message all over the place though.
A good example of that is Maxime Bernier (leader of the PPC,a political party in Canada) who has seen his support disappear after media stopped having the “obligation” to cover him because of election rules. His message lost its reach and now he’s doing live feeds in front of a couple hundreds instead of thousands.
Why wait until it becomes an issue instead of taking preventive measures if we’ve seen it becomes an issue on many platforms?
Oh, you’re making this same argument here as well.
This should be easy, I’ll just copy-paste my replies since you are also copy-pasting your replies (which is a little weird and sus).
Bernier and the PPC is an entire political party running for an election, not an internet community on a niche website that barely gets 20 different users.
🤔
Can whole instances be blocked on Lemmy? I thought only users/communities were possible atm.
They cannot
Aye, nothing lost from defederating them
Nay
I think Contextual Idiot said it best - ‘Defederation should be the last option. After we have exhausted all other options. Because it’s the exchange of ideas, and exposure to other viewpoints, that helps reduce bigotry and hatred.’
That only works if the other party is open to the exchange of ideas and doesn’t just double down instead.
Do we really need to wait until it becomes a major issue or can we just learn from all other platforms that lost control and take measures before that happens?
Ironic hearing that from you.
I know from experience that you personally are not at all open to exchanging ideas.
🤔
Case in point.
The same group that spam downvotes anybody they disagree with accusing others of not being open to the exchange of ideas… 👍
pret much
🤔
Aye.
I had given my reasons previously, but I prefer not to platform bigotry.
If there was a way to reason against this kind of thing, reason could be used.
It can’t.
No.
You are not ‘deplatforming’ them by de-federating. They still have a platform, they still have communities and they still can post there. You can’t deplatform people in a federated social media, they own their own instance. What you’re asking is for the site admins to add every EH user and community to the block list of everyone on this instance. I’m an adult, I don’t need a Big Brother deciding what I can and cannot see.
Save de-federation for last resort issues that cannot possibly be resolved in any other way. If an instance is spamming, if an instance is being used for planning violence, if an instance is allowing the sharing of abusive images or illegal material, if an instance is coordinating harassment (doxing, SWATing, etc) then de-federate them.
De-federation should not be used to create filter bubbles. You have a block list, curate your own filter bubble. Don’t try to enforce your block list on everyone else.
It’s also worth noting that, outside of the the 4th and 5th images, none of the posts in those images would even be considered breaking a rule if posted on this instance. You’re, for the most part, just posting right-wing posts which makes this appear like you’re trying to push a political position.
They’re not right wing posts they’re alt-right posts, there’s a difference there and it’s a major one and the best way to keep that movement from spreading is to not let people be in contact with it.
Please don’t try to protect people from opinions. Eventually they find out and feel lied to.
They are not just sharing opinions. It’s hate against minorities. As overused it may sound, this is one of times when it’s really hate and not just irony.
Every opinion might sound as ideological or hateful or aggressive or oppressive by some… Of course, everyone is biased about what they deem acceptable.
Totally get that these posts offend people - and that maybe that was the intention. On the other hand, poorly rationed opions from another place of the spectrum offend the far-right or the far-left…
If it would be nice if it would be just one or two unintentional offending posts, but there’s a lot of examples even in the post, where it’s clear that they want to offend people, and i would like to keep this place away from intentionally offending content.
If you want to be protected from hateful people, use beehaw. I came to ShitJustWorks specifically because they don’t block instances at a whim.
This instance is not very different for lemmygrad in terms of how hateful they are and lemmygrad is defederated, so see no reason why this one shouldn’t be defederated.
There’s a difference between opinions based on facts and opinions people pretend are based on facts like you see on the extremes. Funny you should say “people will feel lied to” when both the alt-right and tankies lie to argue.
Totally concur. But let’s face it, you cannot make these “arguments” go aways by sweeping them under the carpet. They exist. People learned how to to deal with them. Bluny put: If you know bs arguments all along they don’t catch you by surprise and “convince” you.
Nay.
Having shitty opinions is not an adequate basis to defederate them. I believe defederation should be a last resort.
There is a very clear way to justify defederation. Namely, if another instance is preventing our instance from flourishing. But unless the server is actively causing harm to our users and communities, why is it necessary? Simply block them if you want.
When people ask me why we defederated them, I would like to have a good answer.
Aye
Aye
EDITED
I’ve changed my mind. I vote:
Aye.
I initially voted the other way, as I don’t agree with the content there, but I didn’t think that defederating should be our first action. I still believe that, but this instance has now proved to me that it is extremely toxic. See this post: https://lemmy.world/post/747912
And additionally, many folks will use the fact that we do not defederate from such a community as justification to defederate from us.
Nay. Not as long as they aren’t causing trouble here. By the way, your screenshots show, among others, a user from this very instance pushing back against their narrative, which is exactly what I would ecourage to do. If they start banning people for simply being critical, then we can have the discussion about defederating again.
