Research indicates that individuals with ASD are more likely to experience gender dysphoria, and vice versa.
RCCX!
The entire cluster (ADHD/Hypermobility/Autoimmune/MCAS/etc) is theorised to originate there.
Ok this is super interesting. I’ll have to read more about this. Thanks.
There was an interesting NatGeo article recently about something similar - the links between hypermobility, GI issues, long COVID and long COVID-like illnesses like MECFS, MCAS, etc. The links you provided are really fascinating and suggest maybe even a larger clustering of symptoms unified in a single genetic process.
I’ve read about this. Yes, it’s truly notable how correlated both are.
One explanation I read that makes sense is that autistic people are generally less concerned about social definitions. Since we already are “weird” to the allistic society, we tend to consider things like gender in a different way:
“If society doesn’t have a way to explain how my mind works, how can it define my gender correctly? Maybe, its gender definition doesn’t apply to me”
So you start thinking that, indeed, maybe the society that can’t define your mind if not as “wrong”, can’t define your gender either. And turns out that you feel comfortable in something that, similar to how they explain your brain, is “weird” for them too.
This is a good way to describe the way moral reasoning works for a lot nd people succinctly. Now I will describe it much less succinctly lmao
There are possibly neurological bases for this as well
Mirror neuron system, for example, is thought to be a key factor in development of empathy and moral understanding. This is this system of neurons that give a shared neural activation in response to stimuli, eg we see someone in pain and it activates regions that activate when we experience pain directly
However, people with autism tend to have less active mirror neurons or differently organized system of mirror neurons (still somewhat poorly understood). This is one of the theorized mechanisms behind challenges with socialization and empathization in autism.
However people with autism can obviously still socialize and become empathic, right? I have spoken to many people with autism who if anything feel they are too empathetic.
One of the hypotheses here is that because of the above neurological difference there is a compensatory strategy. Essentially that instead of being able to naturally adapt neurologically people with autism create empathization, social and moral understanding, etc through higher level cognition. Analytical and cognitive based approaches. Trial and error, assessment and reflection, etc rather than instinctive and emotionally driven responses.
Thus far more thought is given to concepts and ideas that the general public simply does not consider. What is gender? What is a social construct? What is the point of social pragmatic language? What is the point of “business appropriate attire”? what is the point?
We recognize that many of these questions are simply tradition enforced by hierarchy balanced against us and can quickly fall apart with basic logic. We dissect these questions and potentially start to reach a state of postconventional moral development (read Kohlberg for more about this).
The thing about this is that you start to recognize a morality that supersedes the need for social order and start to maintain a personal sense of ethics and morality that is not dictated by external factors but empathization. You’re more likely to support civil disobedience now and also more likely to violate social norms but that’s because many social norms don’t make sense. Not surprisingly many adults don’t move to post conventional morality; they stay at a conventional morality in support of maintaining social order. Their morality is mostly dictated from external factors like law and religion.
Now to be clear this doesn’t mean that January 6 trump people have post conventional morality because they were practicing civil disobedience. Their violence was to arguably to protect social norms and to push to a society with extremely rigid social norms and they arguably have the moral development of a child (punishment and obedience stage, literally the first one, classic fascist shit). Where they stand in terms of moral development is an interesting debate but that’s a different post altogether
There’s a lot more to this like medial prefrontal cortex differences, temporo-parietal junction, VTA, reward system activation, etc. the neuroscience here is super interesting and of course it’s important to stress that people with autism approach moral reasoning differently and not that they can’t do it because if you don’t stress that dumb people associate autism with sociopathy and think all autistic people are elon musk
This is a really good write up. It reflects my experience and understanding well.
If I can offer my opinion on the J6 types, I think we have to be careful not to present them as antithetical to the autistic way of thinking, because a lot of autistic people end up in those spaces. For some, the world and its norms become so inscrutable that they seek other sources of order. Religion and strictly defined politics can become a comfort, as illusory as they are.
So it may seem contradictory, but autistic people can swing hard away from social norms, but they can also swing hard into it. Because it’s a spectrum, defined by divergence, which can happen in any direction.
I agree but to clarify:
Autistic people do not inherently develop post conventional morality and the j6 types are not presented here as a counter to “autism” but as a counter to “post conventional morality”
There are many autistic people who are stuck in the early more stages focused on discipline and punishment. Many neurotypical ppl as well. These people are extremely susceptible to fascism because it appeals to simplistic morals based on “things need to go my way and if they don’t you need to get severe punishment”.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lawrence_Kohlberg’s_stages_of_moral_development
_These people would literally be in the first stage of the Heinz dilemma
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heinz_dilemma
Kohlbergs stages have valid criticisms (like they ignore the entire concept of collectivist cultures, for one) but they’re still a decent framework
Good reading. Thanks.
My shrink mentioned this to me and I had to go look it up. It’s very interesting indeed.
Gender isn’t real anyway so 🤷🏻♀️
Gender is real, it’s just a human construct. But that doesn’t make it any less real than, say, Italian is real despite it being a human construct.
Italian’s a dressing, dude. I have some in my fridge.
Salad dressing is also a human construct.
In nature salad just prances around naked!
I’ve never seen salad prance before. Is this a shroom thing, or am I just not looking in the right spot?
Just need the right amount of wind!
Itslian is a sausage and I enjoy it on pizza.
I firmly believe that ohio is just a hole
The idea of gender is just stupid and has to go, regardless if people consider it real or not, it’s a social construct that must go
oof
But like pre-nation of Italy Italian it can have fairly different interpretations based on regionality
From myself I see it as a sensory sensitivity. Like cheap sweatpants that have the fizzy stuff on the inside I can’t stand, but others are just like ehh, it’s not great. So while someone else is ehh about dysphoria, it was overwhelming to me.
Like 80% of teens could now be evaluated as being on some spectrum of autism. But imagine if mental health professionals made up some word for everyone that got tattoos, saying they had skin dysphoria. Or imagine if they actually did their job & identified most Christians in America as mentally ill & prone to delusions.
And your psychology degree is from where?
Facebook university.
Maybe don’t use mental health to attack people you disapprove of? The point of mental health is to help people, not to attack them.
Of course you’re from lemmy.world
comment you’re replying to is off the farm, but talking shit about another instance is kind of hilarious given where you’re coming from.
Like 80% of teens could now be evaluated as being on some spectrum of autism.
You dont get to talk about autism unless you are autistic, bigot. (Even then you would only get to talk about YOUR autism. Stop spreading these baseless, cookie cutter right wing talking points that dont help anyone.
But imagine if mental health professionals made up some word for everyone that got tattoos, saying they had skin dysphoria.
Imagine you shutting your face about other people‘s skin, identity, mental health and decisions. Typical right wing obsession with overstepping other people‘s boundaries. I understand you have never learned them and grew up in a world where you were told your and other‘s boundaries dont matter. That does not give you the right to do it to others.
Or imagine if they actually did their job & identified most Christians in America as mentally ill & prone to delusions.
Classical false equivalence used to drive misinformation and abusive speech. Religious people around the world are not your enemy. It is their choice to believe in what they want. As you show well, being religious and an overstepping abusive dick is not connected.
You dont get to talk about autism unless you are autistic, bigot
TIL 100% of the Psychiatry profession is autistic.
Another bigot. Thanks for showing yourself. Blocked.
Of course academics make research but anyone in good faith knows that this was not about research but a bigot trying to dump on people finally finding out about themselves.
Right? What an insane take.
Guess I’m not allowed to help children on the spectrum learn daily living skills, or teach language skills to kids who communicate by injuring themselves.
Ngl I really wish more psychological “professionals” would just shut up be stop encouraging people to abuse autists
They’re still infinitely qualified to talk about it than randos on lemmy tho
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