As Reddit’s enshittification reaches new heights their attempts to suppress attention for alternatives, like federated Lemmy, has the opposite effect as this Hacker News discussion shows.
Reading criticisms of Lemmy from Reddit and other platforms like HackerNews reminds me of reading criticisms of Reddit from Digg back in 2007-2010, except they’re more based on architecture instead of “it looks ugly”.
Now there are things that will turn away users. There’s obviously a strong leftist culture here, there are less users so less content, and obviously federation is a stumbling block for many people.
But I really think that’s ok similar to what people are saying in that Hacker News thread. I wouldn’t want all of Reddit to come over, and I think it’s better for the culture and growth here to get a self selected trickle/stream of users instead of a deluge.
I don’t think Lemmy will necessarily have the same issues as Mastodon because Twitter/Mastodon requires you to know people or know accounts to follow to be useful. Lemmy just requires communities you’re interested in and a critical mass of users to drive posting and engagement. We’re already seeing greater activity as more users arrive
That second comment by goplayoutside says it well: “Maybe the modest technical hurdles are a feature, not a bug.”
I think it is a feature, and the same is true for Mastodon and the Fediverse as a whole, imho.
I also see it as a feature. If instances have a natural active user cap, then server-based communities can’t get so big as to outpace moderation. And admins have the ability to moderate local users’ behaviour on off-site sublemmies by enforcing their own codes of conduct.
The internet used to be small, but expansive. It became big, but concentrated.
I liked the former. I know many people like the latter. Those people are welcome to their corporate slums.
I liked the former. I know many people like the latter. Those people are welcome to their corporate slums.
You’ve worded it well. I think the technical nature of it is to its benefit, and many server may not want to make the signup process easier, for the reasons you mentioned.
@humanetech @thoro I like it because it weeds out the type of people who would end up being low-effort posters, trolls, and spammers.
Very much so. It shares the load, both from a technical point of view but also from moderation and maintenance point of view.
It’s actually pretty great, all of this.
While it keeps the willfully ignorant out, it can also keep people with learning disabilities out. Accessibility should always be worked on. That being said, Lemmy is certainly easy to access, Even more so than Mastodon IMHO because Mastodon you have to know people whereas lemmy all you have to do is sign up for a community
Problem: organizations pushing a political or commercial agenda will train their agents to overcome modest technical hurdles. Spammers, in particular, will go to extreme lengths to overcome technical hurdles, including hiring people to solve CAPTCHAs.
Agreed, I remember being shocked about a decade ago learning that there were services run in developing countries where you pay about $1 for 1000 CATPCHA solves for your spam bot to pass along and a person solving it.
There’s obviously a strong leftist culture here
That depends on what instance you create an user on. For example, Lemmygrad.ml and Lemmy.ml are not the same thing, despite both belonging to Lemmy. The issues I see are having a tankie culture, and not having more points of view.
There are less users so less content
That’s something we can help with, although it’s not so easy. I mean, the users that are already here, we can create more content and interact more with each other, so eventually more users will come. It can be boring and tiring, but it’s not impossible.
Federation is a stumbling block for many people
That’s something absolutely new for the vast majority of people. I felt myself confused the first time I joined the fediverse too. But after some time, I felt myself less confused. Some clarifications, tutorials and support can do the real trick.
I have to hope that main instances will stop federating Lemmygrad at some point. There’s no place, IMO, for genocide denial/affirmation and authoritarian extremism on platforms like these. Or any platforms.
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I don’t think lemmy.one is deferated from Beehaw; I’m subscribed to one community there.
1st edit: I forgot this community isn’t on Beehaw.
3rd edit: Apparently, I’m Jared, 19, and I cannot read. Sorry about that!
I think the person above meant both beehaw and lemmy.one have defederated from lemmygrad.
Oh… the wording confused me. Whoops!
I’m new here so I don’t know much about lemmy.one, but as far as I understand it’s lemmygrad, that people have a problem with (being tankie and all that). Maybe you got confused with the names?
No, I just got confused with the wording OTL
Edit: Seems this is unfortunately unlikely as the lemmy.ml instance appears to be moderated by a genocide denier and authoritarian.
Who has reportedly been banning people for calling out said genocide denial and authoritarianism.
And they removed my comments among others, for calling the Chinese state a colonial and imperialist state.
What will the next social media trend be? Seems like the centralized options are done for (FB, TW, Reddit), but they’re not being replaced by any single solutions. Tiktok took mainly genZ. Professionals have been wanting a twitter replacement to move to since musk and have yet to figure it out (bluesky, tribel, post social, takes, mastodon, etc has no apparent frontrunner). Political apps segmented some off like parler and the right stuff. Decentralized and foss apps have all kinds of solutions but won’t likely ever attract a huge crowd. So are we seeing the end of of an era of massive centralized social media?
So are we seeing the end of of an era of massive centralized social media?
God, I hope so.
The most disturbing thing I’ve seen is the evidence that Lemmy.ml is controlled by a genocide-supporting red fascist/third positionists. If that’s true, its a massive issue and makes the platform hard to trust.
Very open to learning that this isn’t true, if it isn’t.
You are a wrecker who is trying to destroy lemmy. You will not succeed. Go back to 4chan where someone might believe your weird conspiracy theories.
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Maybe you’re confusing with lemmygrad?
I’d like to read more on this, if true
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The evidence I’ve seen is compiled mainly in these posts:
https://raddle.me/f/lobby/88428/so-the-dengist-who-made-lemmy-has-announced-raddle-isn-t-an https://raddle.me/wiki/why_raddle https://raddle.me/wiki/history https://raddle.me/wiki/QnA_with_Emma
https://www.vice.com/en/article/zm3wbj/radical-leftists-built-their-own-reddit-after-it-banned-them
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Wow the vitriol, you’re the one assuming the worst in someone else here.
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Fuck, i even didn’t notice that the lemmy.ml instance admin, also the Dev of lemmy and the android app has Mao as a profile cover, with Che as avatar…
Yup! The face of genocide & forum administration.
Ziq is not a trustworthy source on shit. That guy is well known for lying and impersonating people to stir up shit, and has a personal vendetta against any leftist message board that he isn’t personally capable of manipulating. He impersonated me and a few other members of Hexbear in the very early days when it became clear r/ChapoTrapHouse wasn’t going to settle on Raddle.
Do you happen to have a link to said evidence? I’d love to review it, myself.
The evidence I’ve seen is compiled mainly in these posts:
https://raddle.me/f/lobby/88428/so-the-dengist-who-made-lemmy-has-announced-raddle-isn-t-an https://raddle.me/wiki/why_raddle https://raddle.me/wiki/history https://raddle.me/wiki/QnA_with_Emma
https://www.vice.com/en/article/zm3wbj/radical-leftists-built-their-own-reddit-after-it-banned-them
So your “evidence” is 4 different links from a “competing” platform, all of which should be considered “one source” not multiple individual sources, one of which is a user post with no actual evidence shown or linked – at least not in the body of the post, I didn’t care to follow through checking the comments – and an article from… Vice.
Not exactly what I would call reputable sources. I’m not DENYING what you’re saying, I just don’t see any specific evidence to support your claim. Just… Be mindful of what you’re using as “source material” when you claim there’s evidence.
There’s other posts by the same user - which can be found on Reddit - where that person does confirm being the original dev. I’m also seeing other people from around the platform confirming it. I’m not saying that’s 100%, but it does seem as if the genocide-denying Tankie lemmy.ml admin is one of the principal devs.
https://old.reddit.com/r/rust/comments/cd3m7l/github_dessalineslemmy_building_a_federated/ https://old.reddit.com/r/communism/comments/dp6ony/rsocialism_mods_are_banning_communists_my_story/
What’s the source on that? That’s a pretty big accusation but I’d certainly want to know if it’s true.
It stems from the fact that lemmy.ml and lemmygrad.ml cofederate, that the project leads are communists, and the claim that lemmy.ml and lemmygrad.ml off of the same IP address.
The first two points are not in contention, but I haven’t, personally, been able to verify the third.
Now, lemmygrad is absolutely a trollish, auth-left hellscape. And I say that with… well, not respect, but not specific derision, either. That genuinely seems to be the aesthetic they’re going for. They’re not here to make friends with anyone but themselves, and they’ll play apologetics for China, North Korea, and Stalin’s takeover of the Soviet Republic all day long.
But even if the project leads are genuinely involved in that, it doesn’t really change the fact that the project is not inextricably tied to them. It’s an open source project. It can be forked, and forked again. No one actually needs lemmygrad or lemmy.ml. Or lemmy, for that matter. Everyone can hop over to kbin or Friendica and still access all of the same communities.
Shit, they’re accessible from Mastodon and Calckey.
And besides, it’s not like people avoid using software when it’s made by white supremacist capitalist techbros. In those cases, we all basically just go “yeah, but I’m not a white supremacist capitalist techbro” and carry on with our day. And those products generally can’t be wrenched from their control or oversight.
Most people chose Elon over learning that multiple websites exist…
Problem: most Lemmy users and communities are on lemmy.ml.
And even if it were true, there are other instances. The only reason I’m on lemmy.ml myself is because the one that was recommended to me first was offline when I tried it, I could move somewhere else if this turns out to be true.
When I joined Lemmy a year ago (with another user), Lemmygrad was not my piece of cake, Lemmy.ml was too big (similar to mastodon.social), Lemmy.ca was not in my continent, and I didn’t notice about beehaw. So, sopuli was the only one standing: small, from Finland and not tankie.
Creating a instance can be difficult, but it’s a good way when you don’t like what you’re offered, and it can help other people to find their home.
So long as the entry points like join-lemmy aren’t controlled, then yes it is a possibly good solution. I’m not stating facts at this point, only stating my concern about what I saw.
What concerns me just now is whether join-lemmy the website is controlled by them or not. So far I don’t know if it is- But if the entry points are guarded by genocide-supporting (not denying) left-fascists, then that does pose a significant issues.
BTW, these ifs I’m using aren’t rhetoric devices. I’m not stating this as fact. There seems to be indicators of concern- Is what I’m saying.
Having been a lemmy resident for a while (this being my second account and someone who doesnt visit lemmygrad at all) is that in my experience the Devs conduct themselves professionally, impartially and generally have the patience of saints.
If you decide to stay here for a while you might form the same impression.
Regardless of whether that’s true, one of those devs seems to be a genocide supporter. Not even a denier, but a supporter.
The evidence I’ve seen is compiled mainly in these posts:
https://raddle.me/f/lobby/88428/so-the-dengist-who-made-lemmy-has-announced-raddle-isn-t-an https://raddle.me/wiki/why_raddle https://raddle.me/wiki/history https://raddle.me/wiki/QnA_with_Emma
https://www.vice.com/en/article/zm3wbj/radical-leftists-built-their-own-reddit-after-it-banned-them
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Very open to learning that this isn’t true, if it isn’t.
That’s not how this works. If you’re going to make serous accusations like that, the onus is on you to provide evidence to support them.
FWIW, I have no particular loyalty to lemmy.ml, I just joined the first instance I saw.
You can actually follow hashtags on mastadon, which is a lot easier then knowing users. :)
Yeah, but none of the Twitter people were using hashtags, and a lot of them where hyper-fixated on finding their Twitter mutuals. They were just trying pretend Mastodon was a drop-in replacement for Twitter.
They didn’t want to create their own space in the new place, and they didn’t want to integrate with those who were already there. They just kind of wanted to ignore the fact that anything was happening, while still, I guess, engaging in slacktivism.
It’s not like there’s not a strong leftist culture on reddit either so I don’t really see that as a problem unique to Lemmy. If Lemmy can provide a centralized-like decentralized platform, I think it can succeed.
There isn’t at all. Reddit is liberal at the very best and even then it’s mostly Obama liberal, which is center right outside the most conservative parts of the world.
The leftist communities are much smaller, easily ignored, and often ridiculed in the mainstream subreddits. The gaming spaces complain about “wokeness” and criticisms of female representations among others. Thinly veiled racism and explicit transphobia abounds.
In contrast, Lemmy is full of anarchists, communists, socialists, and other anti capitalist. It has been and remains a dominantly leftist community.
And with Lemmy, it’s a lot easier to filter out the political spam by simply choosing what instances you federate with. Regardless of left or right leaning, on places like Reddit you have to individually ban troll accounts one by one from your sub, which sucks bigly, and brigading/politik trolling is an ever-present problem in ALL subs. But say if I want to spin up my own instance for cars here, I’m sure as shit going to add lemmygrad to the block list because it’s politics are simply not relevant. And that makes the system so much nicer.
UX is whatever. Would like to see more decentralization of large hosts to avoid it inevitably being 1 or 2 big lemmy hosts with everything.
Also cross federation logins. I was so confused why my logins weren’t working on other servers.
The strong leftist culture is a plus. I know I’m not going to get flooded with nazi shit like so many of the prior iterations of the reddit exodus (e.g. voat).
I was made aware of lemmy because of this. Joined.
@responseAIbot @humanetech I now have my next project: Lemmy. Going to start on it this afternoon.
Lemmy structure very anarchist and I like it
Yeah, even some documentation sections look like manifestos but you can’t disagree to be honest.
Reddit and the top media brought it on themselves.
I loved that page so much. It’s 100% truth what has happened, at least in my opinion.
Lol
the whole of the fediverse is like that
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I tried that, but I couldn’t get it to work. Oh well, two accounts won’t kill me.
👋 hello!
A few hundred people will migrate but the majority will put up with shit, because they’re used to swimming in it.
It will be a small percentage of Reddit. But even small percentage is way, way more than a few hundred. And the most active users (mods, post makers, etc.) are the most likely to move. The casuals who just scroll are the most likely to stay. It’s the former that make most of the content.
The question is if we’d even want the majority to migrate.
I personally migrated because I wanted to avoid the majority
I don’t. I want people who will take the extra time to add to the discussion. Most people aren’t going to want to acclimate to the fediverse which I think will filter out a lot of nonsense.
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but the majority will put up with shit
The majority of people in Reddit don’t provide any value to conversation
ofor information. We shouldn’t really be sad that passive consumers don’t follow the migration to Lemmy or more accurately to Fediverse.I used reddit to get information and read news from active users and to engage in conversations within these topics.
People who won’t follow us from Reddit, wouldn’t have anything good to offer to this platform anyway so I don’t think we should care to be honest.
Nothing of value was lost.
good, we needed a filter
That’s a lovely news. Let them bleed.
I’m really hoping this is too advanced for 90% of Reddit users. Reddit is such a shithole compared to 10 years ago.
Hilarious that a #HackerNews top voted comment on a post wrt #Reddit censoring mentions of #Lemmy effectively argues that the latter is “too geeky and hard to use” and that the former two won’t be displaced because they’re well known and easy to approach.
These people have ZERO self awareness. Never mind understanding about the legacy of their forums.
@osma @humanetech the same will happen with kbin, even tho its interface is hyper similar to reddit. pretty sure that’s gonna be another case of “too geeky, unusable, unstable, useless, sh!tty reddit ripoff and bad”.
the “useless”, as one guy said (not on here) when i mentioned lemmy: “Another sh*tty reddit ripoff? Useless” is very funny
I saw a similar thread on Reddit itself. They had several sources that claimed mastodon had “failed to convert Twitter users”, and therefore the fediverse was a waste of time and would never catch on. I just chuckled because the longer they stay away, the better the fediverse will be (for me).
For everyone.
Reddit just got worse the more people used it.
@DodoTheDev Absurdly hilarious. Thank you, saving this for later use
I remember reddit was sorta seen that way back in the day. The concept of of subreddits that had different sorting features and the like was a lot different than forums way back when
I think to an extent that depends on how much effort/funds the devs are willing to put in to keep sites online. Say 100k people want to come and have a look on the 12th. ~1/10 of those would create accounts, if the server falls over at 11am and stays down then only 10k people will see the site, maybe 1k sign up.
If the server is up all day then I think you’d see much larger adoption.
I’m here because they banned it. Figure if they are threatened by lemmy it must be good.
ive managed to dodge the ban so far
