Amazing episode and superb acting from John Turturro. I audibly gasped a couple times, easily the best new TV I have seen in a while.
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The way Irv delivered “She’s a fucking mole” is just so good. All the pain of confirming a trusted comrade is a rat, all the pain of telling others, the pain of not being listened to. Peak.
What is up with the fourth appendix though? Is it maybe some sort of way where the innies are being indoctrinated into killing their outie? And they have clones??? Too wild. Love it. Weird about how Marks severance seemed to be back in full force though, and also weird that the outies all went along with the retreat. Maybe next episode will be another one of those where we see the outie perspective at around the same time.
Do you think Irv is gone for good?There is just something so off and bizarre about this world that they are still not revealing to us and it makes the show so unnerving in the best way. I can’t tell how seriously to take anything about Lumon or the Eagans but obviously they are very powerful; do they run the whole state, the whole country, the whole world? Is this like an alternate history of the US where the Mormons were much more industrious or something? How did the world get to this state?
I was convinced there weren’t any other branches until Milchick says he got an overseas transfer. They are so shady and I love it because it seems the writers actually thought about what is providing the shade, rather than just doing the stupid “mystery box” gimmick like so many others
Imo the eagans history is mormon like fake lore for the benefit of the innies. Milchick said that the waterfall at woe’s hollow was the largest in the world, the innies wouldn’t have any way to know otherwise. It’s a cult at full blast because its members know nothing else
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I hadn’t even considered that Kier and his twin represented the innie-outie relationship. I figured it was just the usual “religion is weird about masturbating” thing. I’ll need to rewatch because that’s a lot to dig into. I’d like to figure out what the “small bride” represents as well.
It does feel like the end goal of the Kier religion is to sever everyone, indoctrinate all innies, then discard the outies and rule as gods.
I don’t think those are supposed to be clones in the episode. When we last see them standing together on the cliff it’s very apparent they are just similar looking people with similar work outfits.
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I looked away when they stood on the cliff! So silly of me. Yeah I don’t really know what to make of the eagan story, but it seems weird it’d just be about masturbation. It seems pretty big to me to say “hey proles who we pacify with mythologising the company founder, just a quick heads-up the founder had a twin! Isn’t that fun? Kind of like how you also have someone else with the same body as you. Anyway don’t masturbate”
I’m very curious about what Milchicks whole deal is. Some people say he’s an innie. I really like how his facade started to crack when confronting Irving. He could no longer keep coolThe innies work hard while the outies partake in frivolities.
That’s probably the metaphor with the masturbation thing.
probably a red herring
dieter eagan is an anagram for ai generated
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Nah no way is Irv gone. He tells Dylan to “hang in there”, and given this poster:
He wants them to OTC him.
I think the “clones” were like visual hallucinations being projected through their chips maybe? They were giving uncanny valley vibes so it was either that or other employees in masks?
And the fourth appendix could be the thing Natalie had Ricken write that they were talking about in episode 3.
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I’m 98% sure Irv has hidden something behind the poster somehow. Oh shit, maybe a map or something to do with the elevator!
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not to metagame things, but I think there’s 0 percent chance Irv is gone for good - he’s not yet transferred ANY of the information he knows to the rest of the gang either inside or outside, so I figure he MUST be coming back at some point. I don’t think we’ll see Innie Irv for a while, but I suspect we’re about to start picking up with Outtie Irv. On top of that, I’m also interested in what actually happens after the episode ends - Irv is being switched off in the middle of the forest, surrounded by the rest of MDR - does his Outtie immediately wake up? Does he go into a coma and then the Outtie wakes at home? In which case, how the fuck would you explain what’s happened, given the Outtie MUST have signed something at some point to allow Lumon to have control over their Innie for at least two days (to allow them to camp over night). I also can’t help but feel like there’s something more to this ORTBO potentially - it feels like this episode ended in a way that I suspect the next episode might pick up IMMEDIATELY where we left off
but also I might be wrong who knows
I think this show stands out more than it normally would at the moment because 99.9% of current TV is absolute dogshit. It’s not high art but it’s made with attention to detail, effective use of style and a coherent sensibility that’s not just “here’s more slop.”
I do kind of miss the simplicity of s1 (which I admired for finding a great way to capture the unreality of office life and the feeling of “going to work”) but I’m down for where things are headed. My only concern is that in the post-Lost landscape showrunners seem a little too eager to demonstrate they’re going to cross every t and dot every i, and not leave the viewer hanging on any mysteries…personally I like a little ambiguity and lingering mystery. Hopefully they don’t feel the need to didactically over-explain.
Pretty funny to learn that the show’s creator used to work for a company that made doors.
I think this show stands out more than it normally would at the moment because 99.9% of current TV is absolute dogshit. It’s not high art but it’s made with attention to detail, effective use of style and a coherent sensibility that’s not just “here’s more slop.”
I think in general the coming age of post whatever this current slop insanity is, the key to good art both mainstream and indie is just noticeably giving a damn about your art. I think we are going to see a time when art/artists at least look like they are trying they are going to get credit for it. Which a bit of shame to me in the larger sense as I think we always try and give a shit about what we make, but I think we are going to see a return to strong fundamentals
I highly recommend the miniseries Escape at Dannemora which Stiller also directed a bunch of and also features Arquette in a key role.
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If you go back to the video they show in the fist episode of how they’ve improved things for the innies the “bobbing for pineapples” shot looks exactly like Irv drowning Helly
I’m still wondering about how a show about the cultishness of office jobs got made by a company famous for its cultish work environment.
taps the sign
“Media critiques of capitalism are absorbed and turned into commodities by capitalism.”
:yea:
Lumon is literally Apple. It’s so on the nose. As always. Culture is downstream of politics, or perhaps it would be better to say, material conditions
Same as how The Boys is made by Amazon.
It was absolutely beautiful, no question. The acting is incredible as always, too.
But I do not like the pacing this season. Season one was very steady and purposeful, building slowly to the climax in the last couple episodes. This season started even more frantic than the finale, and has been all over the place since. The events of this episode feel rushed. They feel like inevitable outcomes to what’s been set up, but without the escalation in-between.
Still loving this season, but I think I liked S1 more so far.
I love the pacing exactly because we’ve already had the slow build up. If you just keep slowly slowly ever so slowly escalating things, never answering, never resolving, then thats just boring and kind of exhausting. You escalate tensions to reach a satisfactory climax
Lol that basically perfectly describes why I stopped watching Silicon Valley
Season 1 was one of the strongest seasons of television I have seen in the last ten years. I think the pacing of season 2 isn’t that bad but I do see what your saying for sure. Regardless, I’m genuinely pleased with this show, it’s refreshing to know that sci-fi shows don’t need to have robots or space ships to really play to the strengths of the genre.
I’d recommend Dark if you want another sci-fi show that’s different. It’s a little closer to the usual sci-fi with time stuff, god particles, and other similar tropes but it plays a lot more with philosophical themes, the process of history, identity, and other fun things.
yesss dark is so good! i just really like how the show takes itself seriously and doesn’t feel like it can be commercialized like stranger things. the storytelling is really well done and it doesn’t overexplain itself which i find really refreshing.
I honestly had trouble wrapping my head around some of Dark, very cerebral
Dark is another all-timer for me! People sleep on it, but it’s one of the few “Streaming Era” shows I think genuinely needs to be analyzed and stolen from by writers. It’s just plain good storytelling. It had such a rich cast of characters, motivations, inter-personal narratives, and a lot of subtle emotional beats.
Did you see the creators’ other show, 1899? It was cancelled but the first season was pretty interesting.
I watched the first episode, but never returned to it. Not of lack of interest, just one of those “I’ll get around to it” but just haven’t yet.
What I liked most about it was it knew why we were watching this particular instance and knew why it was ending.
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The reason were seeing this iteration of the time loop is because it’s the iteration that has deviated from the previous hundreds or thousands time loops. That’s where the series starts. It knows why we want to see this loop, but not the other loops or even the first loop. The show ends because the loop finally gets closed. They could have easily dragged it on for more seasons, but the writers knew they had reached a perfect ending.
Really shows what having some conviction in your own storytelling can do. Too many shows don’t have confidence in what they’re doing and end up spiraling into nonsense.
Have you watched Devs or Mr Robot?
EDIT: Also Pantheon
Devs is on my watchlist, I have heard good things about it but I haven’t given it a go.
MrRobot I think showed promise but they fumbled it after the second season for me.
If you haven’t watched past the second season of Mr Robot, you are seriously missing out. The 3rd and 4th seasons are some of the best seasons in all of TV.
I’ll give it a shot, but if doesn’t live up to this hype I will write you a strongly worded letter. One with too many run on sentences.
I accept this deal :P
I loved how they managed to keep having major plot twists that didn’t seem contrived or were deus ex machinas. The later plot twists, including the final twist in the last scene of the show, were all there from the beginning of season 1.
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The only thing I didn’t like (apart from the liberalism) was White Rose’s project. It was this major plot point throughout the series, then it turned into nothing? Just like some weird, Large Hadron Collider? Okay and? They hinted at some parts, especially with Angela, that White Rose had discovered something like time travel or a doomsday device or some other whacky shit.
Edit: forgot spoiler
Edit 2: got damn mobile app has a different spoiler than desktop.
Maybe spoiler tag for those who haven’t watched it?
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My main problem is Elliot didn’t completely abolish capitalism.
Yeah that was the liberalism creeping into the show. Can’t have an actual revolution because the audience might start getting ideas.
Yeah, I love that they’re exploring themes you don’t often see on TV. The importance of regulation and transparency, how religion manipulates people, and even antinatalism.
Unrelated to this specific episode, but I heard someone say Burts innie is the one we saw in the season 1 finale. I think the elevator Irving paints lets innies leave work without getting deactivated. I think that’s why Burt has followed Irving around after.
“Think of it as a transition” - Milchick, speaking of Burts retirement.
Having Innies take over gives Lumon absolute control over them, since they can be “turned off” at any point
holy…
unfortunately the time has passed but the sentiment remains
WAITER WAITER MORE severance memes PLEASE
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I am not enjoying each fact equally
Im gonna, I’m gonna, but today is the superbowl. Tomorrow, i promise
I have trouble paying attention to episodes after a big cliffhanger that dont address it at all. This was the first episode I skimmed through a bit just because I really wanted to see some of Marks reintegration before having to wait for another week. Also I think him and Helly having a relationship is the worst part of the show, it feels like something that’s only included because its expected to be there.
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Just generally about their relationship: The real Helena essentially SA’d Mark this episode.
I think it was S2E1 where Helena was obsessively watching Helly and Mark’s kiss. I wonder if she’s ever had a genuine relationship and if part of the reason she decided to go back in was to be with Mark.
I like their relationship, it feels like a great way to explore a lot of themes about bodily autonomy and so on
Yup exactly. And now the show can delve really into that.
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Yes, do it, Seth!
It’s solid. Nothing gasp worthy about the whole thing.
I’m waiting for all the episodes to be out so I can binge watch.
