Not really.
I like witchy stuff but only if its considerable to placebos. A rose quartz bracelet, for example, might not be scientifically going to attract love and good fortune—but its cute and makes me happy, so who knows, THAT might help.
If I had to choose a religion though, I’d probably go with one of those polytheist religions because ever since I was a kid and first went to a church camp, I decided that a singular “God” scares the shit out of me. I basically considered “God” too overpowered and decided that wasn’t for me.
Big up for happiness having a positive effect on your life.
I am atheist but I do enjoy religious spaces. There’s a stillness that I like, gives you the opportunity to just be in the moment. You don’t get many spaces like that for atheist folk (libraries are the closest I can think of). I sing a lot of choral music so often find myself in churches. I like the structure of a service and the ceremonial aspect, I just don’t believe in the content itself.
definitely relate to this. i attend church regularly despite not being religious because my family is, and though i don’t believe in the christian god at least, i do appreciate and like the environment, community, and lessons being taught. it’s very peaceful and makes you feel like you’re part of something a bit bigger, even if that’s likely just because there’s a few hundred people at any given service.
Absolutely not.
No, but I also recognize that I may be wrong. To be honest, arrogant atheists bother me even more than arrogant theists.
To me, the whole point is that any answer is impossible to prove. Trying to definitively, factually state that no kind of higher power exists is irrational, and thoroughly undermines any claim of logic or reason. The stubborn, uncompromising kind of atheist frequently describes themselves as a logical, rational person, so I expect them to see this problem.
No. It took me a lot of hard effort to get here with my upbringing. I think parts of it are fine and for the most part regular people practice in ways that aren’t harmful to others, but (at least in the US), the entire structure of it is deeply harmful and results in good, decent folk taking actions or supporting others who do real harm.
Every religious community organisation that I have had first hand personal experience with has been involved in a myriad of verified claims of abuse Including: sexual, financial, and elder. My confidence in these institutions is now nonexistent. And I find myself misidentifying with them completely. I think I am now de facto apathetically agnostic.
I’m spiritual and I guess some would say religious, though I just call it witchy. I was raised by strict parents as an evangelical Christian (Southern Baptist), but that made less and less sense as I grew older and learned more about the world around me.
I found my way to witchcraft, and working with and in nature made way more sense to me. I’m eclectic, and not very into ceremonial magic, but I do believe magic is real, and I believe we all have different paths to take in life. I currently worship Persephone, Hestia, and Loki, and I try to honor other deities where applicable. I’m studying everything I can, and love hearing about other people’s experiences.
love to see a witch in this thread! i was very interested in witchcraft back when i was deconverting from christianity, as a sort of way to wrestle control over my beliefs again, but honestly haven’t touched it much in awhile. i could never really get myself to believe in any of the pagan gods, even though i really wanted to, and still would like to if i could only bring myself to have faith and believe.
tarot is the best thing i’ve taken from that time, i love it as a tool to analyze emotions and thoughts i don’t fully understand, though i don’t use it much these days. i should try and start using it again :)
may i ask what’s driven you to worship those deities in particular? and, if you had to get over a “belief” hump like i’ve failed to, what pushed you to really believe in the old gods?
I did have to get over a belief hump. It was a slow shift from Christianity to where I am now. I felt a lot of guilt at first, and didn’t worship any particular deity. I just worked with energy and tarot, and joined a local group and took their seeker class. I didn’t feel called to work with a particular god, and I was in a place where I couldn’t really do much magic because of who I lived with and rules they had. I was feeling stifled, and I could only do research and read. In order to get through some of that hump, I read anything and everything I could get my hands on. And it really took some deep dive journaling for me to feel more comfortable with the path I was on. Everything just made more sense to me, and I was a lot happier with witchcraft than I had ever been with Christianity. The guilt just kindof faded over time, and I was able to move past it.
Then Persephone’s name just kept showing up everywhere a few years back, including in my apartment. Like a collectible card from Firefly/Serenity constantly showing up around my house, hearing about Wendy Rule’s Persephone album, Then hearing about the Spring Mysteries which go through her/Demeter’s myth. So I started researching her mythos and I really connected with it. She’s not just one thing, She’s both Iron Queen of the Underworld, and soft Maiden of Springtime Blooms. She helps the cycle of life continue and helps people with change. She helped me move away from that living situation where I could practice more freely. She’s someone I needed to hear from at that time due to complicated relationships with my parents, and helped me process going no contact with them. I’m currently trying to work more with plants to work with her energy and honor her. I sometimes get hints that she’s around, a strong whiff of vanilla out of the blue, or a beautiful patch of flowers. (That’s just me though :) Everyone has their own experiences)
Hestia, I started worshipping because she helped me manifest a house - I also like her energy and continue to worship her. She’s warm and comforting. I can honor her whenever I bake, especially for others, or light a candle for her when I celebrate holidays with my found family.
Loki is newer for me - I just feel a pull (Honestly, I’ve felt it for a while) and I’m starting down that path of researching the mythos. I’ve just set up a small altar for them and am going to learn to work with their energy. I’m kindof excited to see where it goes.
I would say if you are truly wanting to work with a deity - research all of their myths and see what you can glean from it and how you can apply their stories to your life. Maybe you just haven’t found the right fit for you, or maybe you did and it was the wrong time.
Technically speaking though - you don’t have to work with deity to do witchcraft. Witchcraft is a craft, and a lot of people work it into their existing religious structure (There are Christian witches, for example). There’s also a lot of people who are agnostic or atheistic witches. Some believe that the pagan gods are archetypes rather than actual beings. They use their stories as tools similar to how you use Tarot! There was a group on Reddit called “SASS Witches”, I don’t know if they’ve relocated at all, but its something you could look into. I know there are a lot more books coming out that aren’t so Wicca-based, too, so there will be more information out there. There’s a lot of different paths to take, and you just have to find yours.
thank you for sharing your experiences! i appreciate the insight, and may take up looking into the gods again soon, or even just practicing a bit of witchcraft. it’s such a big world, it can be daunting to try and get very into it when you’re on your own.
I hate religion. I hate ““spirituality”” (what does that even mean?). It makes my skin crawl. I hate that people willfully delude themselves into believing things that they clearly know to not be true, on some level, and then argue wholeheartedly for their actual truthfulness. It’s the most nonsensical practice I can imagine someone engaging in and I struggle to see people who do so as willful, rational human beings. How could they be? Just look at all the people in this thread searching for one that "speaks to them as if they can just pick the nature of reality out for themselves. How in the world can people do that and not make themselves crazy with cognitive dissonance?
BUT. What I do understand is that people are searching for structure, community and a sense of reverence towards… something. There have been attempts at replicating that experience sans-nonsense, but every time it’s tried it’s mostly ridiculed and laughed at by the sort of jackass atheists who can’t even empathize with that longing. It’s sad.
spirituality, as i understand it, tends to be more mindful/spiritual practices minus any typically associated religious aspects. for example, meditating and yoga would be typical examples of this, but i think spirituality can also be watching the sun rise/set, going for a walk in the woods, or taking a hot bath. anything that can help bring you to a more peaceful place of self reflection and introspection could be considered spiritual in my opinion.
how can you say that you hate that while not even knowing what it is?
I do all of those things. I choose not to call them spiritual because to a lot of people, spirituality implies a belief in the supernatural, spirits, some nonsense about vibrations, etc.
i don’t really think you get to label others’ experiences ;) imo these experiences tend to feel different to me- more checking in with my physical, mental, and emotional health, as well as feeling connected to the earth and environment around me. that’s what makes them spiritual to me personally- they just feel like more than a regular walk in the woods or hot bath. it’s like i’m connecting with something deeper inside myself and in the world itself.
Well, yes, they’re certainly more than a regular walk in the woods or a bath, which is why I said self-administered mental health practices. Meditation be like that. Still no spirits involved, which is what the word spiritual implies.
i feel like the spirit involved is my own, hence why i would consider it spirituality. but it doesn’t look like this is going anywhere though, so i hope you have a lovely day :)
I’m very curious to hear about the attempts you’re referencing in your second paragraph!
Sorry I didn’t get to this comment earlier!
The broadest answers to that question are Humanism and Scientific Pantheism, which I’m partial to. That’s what a lot of atheists have made a whole lot of fun of.
Of course humanism is still sort of opposed to what I’m talking about in thr second paragraph, or at least most humanists would be, as far as I’m aware. And most “earth religions” fall under some form of what I’d call spirituality.
In the U.S., at least, I’ve started attending my very local Unitarian Universalist church and I think they’re your best actual practical bet. As much as I whine about most religion, I deeply respect the UU’s commitment to include everyone, atheists included, and so I do my best to respect what people believe and what they want to talk about (which naturally doesn’t usually involve trying to convert people). Third spaces are too important to keep people out because of some sense of sectarianism.
And, of course, Buddhism is at it’s heart a very skeptical religion to the point that some interpret more as a philosophy, which is how I choose to see it, and it’s a philosophy and a practice that modern psychology owes a whole lot to (and should probably yank even more from). It’s literally just a framework of how to stop “suffering” and live a good life regardless of whether it seems like a good life externally. I do mostly stick to more secularized, almost new-age interpretations of it, I love the blog Deconstructing Yourself for being thoroughly dedicated to “Nondualism” while rejecting the schizo craziness it usually brings with it. But I like to learn from something closer to primary sources, too…
For which I’m relying on the Buddhist University. Of the two “original” explicitly supernatural elements of Buddhism, reincarnation was an assumption of the culture the Buddha was born into, and with that stripped away, Karma as cause and effect is just determinism without any “you’re screwed because your past self screwed up”. The second chapter of What the Buddha Taught (which is a great book) practically made me a Buddhist by illuminating just how dedicated the Buddha was to making sure people actually remained skeptical of him, only searching for what they could personally prove not really caring whether something was his idea or anyone else’s. This is a quote (supposedly from him, not that it matters) that sums it up:
Yes, Kālāmas, it is proper that you have doubt, that you have perplexity, for a doubt has arisen in a matter which is doubtful. Now, look you Kālāmas, do not be led by reports, or tradition, or hearsay. Be not led by the authority of religious texts, nor by mere logic or inference, nor by considering appearances, nor the delight in speculative opinions, nor by seeming possibilities, nor by the idea: “this is our teacher”. But, O Kālāmas, when you know for yourselves that certain things are unwholesome, and wrong, and bad, then give them up… And when you know for yourselves that certain things are wholesome and good, then accept them and follow them.
There’s also a story about him telling off one of his followers for insisting that he reveal the “mysteries of the universe”. He was pretty much like look, you’re being a dumbass, that’s won’t help you live well, that’s not important." I can respect that.
Nuh uh. “Losing My Religion” by R.E.M. still feels surreal and sad for my heart.
I was raised particularly southern, like three denomination deep Protestant, (that only existed because some people argued if you should speak in tongues in church or if that would be “distracting from the lawd”.) And my family participated in the activities so I was forced to attend EVERY SUNDAY AND WEDNESDAY NIGHT until I was 18.
I don’t have a lot of good things to say about it. After I realized I only tried to follow it cause of where I was born (and what measure of truth is that?) I started to address each moral question as it came and settle it myself based off of morality I could stomach.
A lack of belief is easy when I’ve seen nothing to believe, in fact I used to feel alone in it. Eventually I realized I cannot fake it, and what reason would there be, what diety would accept it?
It’s complicated. I am not religious, and have considered myself to be an atheist for most of my life so far. I also have strong negative feelings towards most mainstream religions, because of their long-standing hate towards people like me and my loved ones. I also grew up in a Presbyterian church and honestly, fuck everything about calvinist-derived theology.
But, it is hard to shake some amount of magical thinking. And honestly, if it brings joy, and isn’t harming people around you, why not? So lately I’ve been leaning into it a bit, in a vaguely neopagan direction. I definitely don’t take any of it literally, but if a sprinkle of it helps keep me from descending into despondency, I will shrug and go with it. It isn’t rational, but I am a human, not a robot.
I have also considered finding a local unitarian universalist church or something along those lines. Somewhere that is chill with me as I am. The last few years have been isolating and I think I need more community in my life to thrive.
Religions have been perverted into a system of manipulation and control of the masses. Granules of truth in each one keep people coming back, but in the end they are like a virus in human consciousness that is designed to control us. I really believe each person can only find real truth by turning inward and deeply exploring their own consciousness.
I disagree with this. Definitely there are many examples of organised religion being perfect case studies of the adage that power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely. But there are also many ways that religious communities support each other and their wider communities, outside just providing a doctrinal “granule of truth”.
Sikhism I think is most famous for this, and I feel like at least where I live whenever something bad happens in the background on the news I see Sikh communities mobilising to render assistance.
Similarly, the denomination I was brought up in (church of christ) has always been oriented, both in theory and practice, around doing community work first and debating doctrine a fairly distant second (also, each church of christ congregation is an independent entity, which I think has probably contributed to it being able to maintain its strong community-first focus over time).
thank you for pointing this out. i understand why some people tend to blanket religion as unrational, cold, hateful, and/or controlling, but it’s really unfair to generalize such a diverse group like that. there’s a lot of religions, boiling them all down to whatever awful thing you hear in the news about one specific religion is pretty bad imo.
I’m quite drawn to the ritual aspects of religion but there’s another part of me finds it all hopelessly silly.
Ritual can be entirely divorced from theism or a belief in the supernatural. Nothing wrong with creating a secular ritual if it helps you in some way.
Agnostic atheist here. If you twisted my arm to choose something I’d make a religion out of this story [http://galactanet.com/oneoff/theegg_mod.html](“The Egg”)
Other than that, I don’t have any reason to believe its anything other than nothing, non-existence after we die.
I was looking for someone who labeled themselves in both axes of religious belief: theism vs. atheism and gnosticism vs. agnosticism.
For those who don’t know, the idea is very roughly that theism is the axis that defines belief in higher powers/spirituality, and gnosticism is the axis about whether the beliefs are knowable/proveable.
So, for example:
- A gnostic theist might believe in god and believe they have proof of its existence.
- An agnostic theist might believe in spirituality, but that organized religion is just based on other people’s ideas about spirituality, not the divine word.
- An agnostic atheist might not believe in spirituality, but that it’s impossible to prove that spirituality doesn’t exist, either.
- A gnostic atheist might believe there is nothing spiritual and that the origins of all “spirituality” can be explained by anthropology, history, or human psychology, so it’s all provably false.
I fall into the gnostic atheist camp, myself. A minority within a minority. ;)
Thank you for the detailed breakdown… also a gnostic atheist and I rarely find someone who knows wtf I’m referring to, lol.
This breakdown helps, I guess I’m also a gnostic atheist. I’ve also read “The Egg” and found it an interesting story.
No, I am an atheist and do not believe in anything super natural.
In any organised sense, no, not really. Beyond that, maybe?
But no more than feeling a sense of belonging within the universe which we are a part of and connection with other parts of that universe, be they human, animal, plant or other.
If there is something else out there or on a higher plane of existence than us, I don’t believe it is within the grasp of any human to understand it, let alone write down it’s wants and desires in regards to the way we should live out lives.
