But… Ukraine falling to Russia would strengthen the US’s military (and cultural) hegemony over the western world. If this truly was the rationale behind the US’s involvement in Ukraine, everything we’ve done thus far would make absolutely zero sense. Strengthening Ukraine and spurring investment into the home-grown EU defense industry only serves to weaken our position as the lynchpin of NATO. A better justification for US involvement in Ukraine is that this is a great opportunity to starve Russia’s economy by forcing them into conflicts they cannot economically support (which was much the same strategy that lead to the collapse of the soviet union).
It’s also a great opportunity for Russia to starve the US economy by getting them involved in conflicts it cannot economically support. And the US is far more overextended due to other conflicts.
You might have a point if the US were fighting in Ukraine, but… we’re not? We’re advising the Ukraine army, sharing intelligence we’d be gathering anyways and giving AFU a bunch of export weapon systems we found by rummaging around in the pentagon’s couch cushions. This has been a spectacular opportunity for the US because it costs us almost nothing, yet what used to be considered our biggest opponent is teetering on the brink of cultural and economic collapse. Seriously, even if Kiev were to fall tomorrow NATO would be no-contest the victor. Nobody cares about the bear any more.
You might have a point if the US were fighting in Ukraine, but… we’re not?
Yes, we’re just sacrificing their lives for the realpolitic of weakening Russia, which is also bad.
we found by rummaging around in the pentagon’s couch cushions… it costs us almost nothing
Lmao, y’all actually believe this shit.
The US spends nearly a trillion dollars a year on the military, more than the next nine countries in the world combined. Every government program designed to actually help people gets cut to feed more money into the war machine. It’s no wonder we have “military equipment between our couch cushions,” because military equipment is what virtually all our tax money goes towards, when it’s the reason we can’t have things like free healthcare or higher education. Notice how we never seem to find money between our couch cushions for those things?
what used to be considered our biggest opponent
Did it? Who considered the Russian Federation a bigger opponent than the PRC?
is teetering on the brink of cultural and economic collapse
Looked in a mirror lately? The US just elected Trump, in part because people think he represents an alternative to the disastrous establishment policies that pour endless money into pointless foreign wars, and to an economy that is working for fewer and fewer people. Seems like “on the brink of cultural collapse” describes the US to a T.
But moreover, the whole American Empire is falling apart around us. Every year, more and more countries that are just as significant as Ukraine are choosing to make deals with China, to start trading and cooperating with them instead of us. Because the US is trying to rule the world through force and intimidation, while China is manufacturing consumer goods and building hospitals and infrastructure for developing and middle-income countries - the things we won’t even build domestically. Who would want to side with us when you can look at our domestic situation and see that it’s declining and awful? If that’s the best we can provide our own citizens, then what could we offer to other countries?
If I were an “accelerationist,” like people sometimes baselessly accuse me of, I would 100% support spending more on the military and getting involved in these stupid unwinnable conflicts all over the world, dumping endless amounts of money towards any situation we can use bombs and not sparing a penny for actually making anyone’s life better, because those self-destructive policies will ensure the downfall of the US more than anything else could. The problem with that being, the US is likely to start WWIII in that scenario, the more clear it becomes that the military is literally the only tool that we could possibly use to maintain hegemony, since it’s the only thing we spend money on.
Oh boy. Only have time for a top three, so in no particular order:
Who considered the Russian Federation a bigger opponent than the PRC?
… Literally everyone. China was aligned as a ‘follower’ of the Russian Federation’s geopolitical lead prior to russia’s utter stomping in Ukraine. Was it incorrect? Well, obviously. But the image of the great russian bear was the specter keeping the western world up at night.
Looked in a mirror lately? The US just elected Trump
A blatant whatabboutism but just to address it: The US will be fine (diminished geopolitcally no doubt, but still in a powerful position) after this all gets sorted out internally. We survived the last trump admin, we’ll come through this one too. This just isn’t the fall of the roman empire like oh so many people are claiming, politically it just doesn’t even resemble it.
building hospitals and infrastructure for developing and middle-income countries - the things we won’t even build domestically.
I… what? We opened half a dozen hospitals in my state alone last year. Additionally, you know the US has been the world’s largest source of charity and investment in developing nations for decades, right? Look you’re repeating lines from some seriously anti-china propaganda here and it’s a little weird. You know about trump canceling USAID and why that’s bad, right?
There’s lots of things to criticize the US on (and it’s something I do all the time, lets be clear) but you clearly don’t know what you’re talking about.
(Okay, honorable mention because I just can't with this shit:)
when it’s the reason we can’t have things like free healthcare or higher education.
The reason we don’t have healthcare is fascism, not “military spending taking all the money”. We could 100% have free uni and healthcare without reducing a cent to the pentagon’s budget. In many states we even have (limited) free healthcare, entirely funded by state budgets. You’re just repeating bullshit right-wing talking points like they’re objective truth, but with a lefty spin on them.
Really? I certainly didn’t. The PRC has a much larger economy and military and much greater diplomatic influence. To paint them as a “follower” of Russia at any point in history is ridiculous. I guess lib circles have been obsessing about “Russiagate” and whatnot but that’s not really serious analysis.
A blatant whatabboutism
“Whataboutism” isn’t a real thing and if it was, this isn’t one. We’re literally talking about whether the war is accelerating US decline, and now literally anything I say as supporting evidence is categorically ruled out by this absurdity.
after this all gets sorted out internally.
Hilarious that you think that will happen. But of course, Trump and what he represents is just a bump in the road, a strange anomaly that came out of nowhere and may disappear just as randomly. That is, if you have no understanding of where Trumpism came from. It’s here to stay, I’m afraid.
Additionally, you know the US has been the world’s largest source of charity and investment in developing nations for decades, right?
Lmao, do you have a source for that?
The reason we don’t have healthcare is fascism, not “military spending taking all the money”
Corporate wants you to find the difference between these pictures.
The unspoken implication there was credible people. Generally one can assume things like that, if they’re discussing in good faith. It’s like how I didn’t point out you’re so unfamiliar with this topic that you can’t even spell realpolitik right - it’s a minor concession made to ease conversation that costs me nothing. “The benefit of the doubt”, as it were.
“Whataboutism” isn’t a real thing and if it was, this isn’t one.
Affecting a condescending tone is not a substitute for having an argument or positions with any basis in reality.
Oh buddy, no. Just no.
Oh buddy, yes. Just yes.
It’s literally made up, it has no logical basis and is just a tool to shut down people pointing out relevant and important context for the purpose of propaganda and controlling the conversation. Or in this case, it’s not even shutting down context, it’s shutting down points that are directly related to the topic of discussion, which is why I said, even if it were a thing, this isn’t it.
I’ll take it you don’t have the source I requested, btw, meaning that you just made that claim up and it’s complete bullshit.
But… Ukraine falling to Russia would strengthen the US’s military (and cultural) hegemony over the western world. If this truly was the rationale behind the US’s involvement in Ukraine, everything we’ve done thus far would make absolutely zero sense. Strengthening Ukraine and spurring investment into the home-grown EU defense industry only serves to weaken our position as the lynchpin of NATO. A better justification for US involvement in Ukraine is that this is a great opportunity to starve Russia’s economy by forcing them into conflicts they cannot economically support (which was much the same strategy that lead to the collapse of the soviet union).
It’s also a great opportunity for Russia to starve the US economy by getting them involved in conflicts it cannot economically support. And the US is far more overextended due to other conflicts.
You might have a point if the US were fighting in Ukraine, but… we’re not? We’re advising the Ukraine army, sharing intelligence we’d be gathering anyways and giving AFU a bunch of export weapon systems we found by rummaging around in the pentagon’s couch cushions. This has been a spectacular opportunity for the US because it costs us almost nothing, yet what used to be considered our biggest opponent is teetering on the brink of cultural and economic collapse. Seriously, even if Kiev were to fall tomorrow NATO would be no-contest the victor. Nobody cares about the bear any more.
Yes, we’re just sacrificing their lives for the realpolitic of weakening Russia, which is also bad.
Lmao, y’all actually believe this shit.
The US spends nearly a trillion dollars a year on the military, more than the next nine countries in the world combined. Every government program designed to actually help people gets cut to feed more money into the war machine. It’s no wonder we have “military equipment between our couch cushions,” because military equipment is what virtually all our tax money goes towards, when it’s the reason we can’t have things like free healthcare or higher education. Notice how we never seem to find money between our couch cushions for those things?
Did it? Who considered the Russian Federation a bigger opponent than the PRC?
Looked in a mirror lately? The US just elected Trump, in part because people think he represents an alternative to the disastrous establishment policies that pour endless money into pointless foreign wars, and to an economy that is working for fewer and fewer people. Seems like “on the brink of cultural collapse” describes the US to a T.
But moreover, the whole American Empire is falling apart around us. Every year, more and more countries that are just as significant as Ukraine are choosing to make deals with China, to start trading and cooperating with them instead of us. Because the US is trying to rule the world through force and intimidation, while China is manufacturing consumer goods and building hospitals and infrastructure for developing and middle-income countries - the things we won’t even build domestically. Who would want to side with us when you can look at our domestic situation and see that it’s declining and awful? If that’s the best we can provide our own citizens, then what could we offer to other countries?
If I were an “accelerationist,” like people sometimes baselessly accuse me of, I would 100% support spending more on the military and getting involved in these stupid unwinnable conflicts all over the world, dumping endless amounts of money towards any situation we can use bombs and not sparing a penny for actually making anyone’s life better, because those self-destructive policies will ensure the downfall of the US more than anything else could. The problem with that being, the US is likely to start WWIII in that scenario, the more clear it becomes that the military is literally the only tool that we could possibly use to maintain hegemony, since it’s the only thing we spend money on.
Oh boy. Only have time for a top three, so in no particular order:
Who considered the Russian Federation a bigger opponent than the PRC?
… Literally everyone. China was aligned as a ‘follower’ of the Russian Federation’s geopolitical lead prior to russia’s utter stomping in Ukraine. Was it incorrect? Well, obviously. But the image of the great russian bear was the specter keeping the western world up at night.
Looked in a mirror lately? The US just elected Trump
A blatant whatabboutism but just to address it: The US will be fine (diminished geopolitcally no doubt, but still in a powerful position) after this all gets sorted out internally. We survived the last trump admin, we’ll come through this one too. This just isn’t the fall of the roman empire like oh so many people are claiming, politically it just doesn’t even resemble it.
building hospitals and infrastructure for developing and middle-income countries - the things we won’t even build domestically.
I… what? We opened half a dozen hospitals in my state alone last year. Additionally, you know the US has been the world’s largest source of charity and investment in developing nations for decades, right? Look you’re repeating lines from some seriously anti-china propaganda here and it’s a little weird. You know about trump canceling USAID and why that’s bad, right?
There’s lots of things to criticize the US on (and it’s something I do all the time, lets be clear) but you clearly don’t know what you’re talking about.
(Okay, honorable mention because I just can't with this shit:)
The reason we don’t have healthcare is fascism, not “military spending taking all the money”. We could 100% have free uni and healthcare without reducing a cent to the pentagon’s budget. In many states we even have (limited) free healthcare, entirely funded by state budgets. You’re just repeating bullshit right-wing talking points like they’re objective truth, but with a lefty spin on them.
Really? I certainly didn’t. The PRC has a much larger economy and military and much greater diplomatic influence. To paint them as a “follower” of Russia at any point in history is ridiculous. I guess lib circles have been obsessing about “Russiagate” and whatnot but that’s not really serious analysis.
“Whataboutism” isn’t a real thing and if it was, this isn’t one. We’re literally talking about whether the war is accelerating US decline, and now literally anything I say as supporting evidence is categorically ruled out by this absurdity.
Hilarious that you think that will happen. But of course, Trump and what he represents is just a bump in the road, a strange anomaly that came out of nowhere and may disappear just as randomly. That is, if you have no understanding of where Trumpism came from. It’s here to stay, I’m afraid.
Lmao, do you have a source for that?
Corporate wants you to find the difference between these pictures.
The unspoken implication there was credible people. Generally one can assume things like that, if they’re discussing in good faith. It’s like how I didn’t point out you’re so unfamiliar with this topic that you can’t even spell realpolitik right - it’s a minor concession made to ease conversation that costs me nothing. “The benefit of the doubt”, as it were.
Oh buddy, no. Just no.
Affecting a condescending tone is not a substitute for having an argument or positions with any basis in reality.
Oh buddy, yes. Just yes.
It’s literally made up, it has no logical basis and is just a tool to shut down people pointing out relevant and important context for the purpose of propaganda and controlling the conversation. Or in this case, it’s not even shutting down context, it’s shutting down points that are directly related to the topic of discussion, which is why I said, even if it were a thing, this isn’t it.
I’ll take it you don’t have the source I requested, btw, meaning that you just made that claim up and it’s complete bullshit.
Lmao, just hush dude