Nah Jobs didn’t do anything himself. From Wozniaks first computer up to the multitouch display for the iPhone, all of these things were just bought/stolen/copied. Jobs just knew how to put these technologies into something that would sell.
Jesus I’m no Elon fan but how many companies do you have to take from a couple million to hundreds of billions before you’re good at your job?
What is it with modern society and the need to reduce everything about a person just because they’re a POS? He might be evil but he’s clearly pretty good at being a businessman or you wouldn’t even know his name.
But… he literally isn’t. Like just look at twitter, he has ruined it from day one with bad decisions day after day whose impacts haven’t shown directly, but now appear more and more with embarrassing effects (The verification badge which is now worthless and has been used to impersonate people and cooperations, the two factor authentification which stopped working, the self-DDOSing, the maximum amounts of tweets one could view per day, the old tweets that got deleted due to a glitch, etc.)
And in other companies it’s mostly other people managing the stuff and cleaning up the mess he leaves; especially SpaceX is currently just glad that he isn’t too busy with his X playtoy to bother them.
The only thing you may call him somewhat successful in is making out companies that have a potential so he could get into them early and claim their success.
Elon is (maybe was) very much good at what he does. Twitter is a bad example because that whole shit show was a dick measuring content from the get-go.
Fact is, SpaceX wouldn’t be SpaceX and Tesla sure as fuck would not be Tesla without his leadership.
He’s a piece of shit as a person, and I’d never want to work for him, because his work ethic is unhealthy to say the least (and I personally have a pretty extreme work ethic), but it’s schoolyard nonsense to claim he’s somehow bad at business. Leading a business may be the one thing he is good at. It’s tossing shit just to toss shit.
You can not like him and acknowledge he is good at things.
Tesla sure as fuck would not be Tesla without his leadership.
You’re right, it wouldn’t; it would almost certainly be a better company.
Musk got Tesla where it is financially entirely through blatant fraud. “Earning” the company’s absurd valuation based almost entirely on dishonest promises of releasing a technology that is entirely unachievable, undesirable, and dangerous is an unsustainable business model, and it’s already showing cracks.
The fact that you seem to think that being highly profitable through constant ethical violations in every aspect of the company is to viewed as a succsess is honestly pretty gross.
It’s a completely different business vertical. Running a government rocketship contract or vehicle manufacturer isnt the same as software development or social media. Plus he’s made so many decisions that are laughably stupid to the layman that it almost seems like he’s tanking it purposefully.
Businesses aren’t all the same and the same type of person can’t run all of them. It’s like asking your heart doctor to give you a urologists opinion.
Tesla started with almost nothing, SpaceX was his from the ground up. I’m not certain how much of Paypal was his but something tells me he was in management there too.
No one’s claiming he developed the Tesla Model 3, or engineered the landing system of the Dragon boosters himself. He has been in charge of the people who have though, and he seems to be doing well enough of a job to keep those companies going.
So he’s not good at managing a social media platform specifically, if he’s actually trying and this isn’t just a long con to destroy the site for some other end goal.
While he has had some success, he’s also demonstrably been a glory hog benefiting from crazy good luck.
He had an Internet company during the first dot com boom. He got a bunch of cash from Compaq for effectively nothing, because businesses had to snap up anything vaguely Internet. Right place at right time, basically won a lottery.
So then he founded an Internet bank. But want allowed to lead it, no matter, either way it was overshadowed by PayPal, which was a runaway success. Somehow he managed a merger with him being put in charge of the joint company. Then he almost tanked it and was put aside to salvage the company. However, he managed to be popularly thought of as “the PayPal guy”
He founded SpaceX. Off the top of my head, that one seems fair enough.
Then you have Tesla, which existed prior to him Knowing about it, yet he still insisted on being called a founder. It’s possible that without him, Tesla wouldn’t have gone far, but either way, he’s been a glory hog about it to the point of again getting himself framed as “the” Tesla guy.
Also in the case of Tesla, it was a company entering a market with virtually zero competition. Compare the available fully electric cars of 2013-4 and take a wild guess as to which consumers were drooling over: the one that looks like an actual car or ones that screams “eco-friendly toy” (Mitsubishi i, Nissan Leaf)?
There’s no version of this reality where Jobs isn’t a good businessman. You might not like the company or their products, but they’ve somehow managed to build a huge and successful business selling those overpriced toys to tons of people. They managed to create a cult around expensive consumer electronics. That is a massive success no matter how you slice it. And you can’t deny that Jobs played a big part in that.
it was just a gag for comic effect. it wasn’t the breadth and depth of my thoughts and feelings of the digital and manufacturing epochs since the 1980s.
But also, it was kind of begging the question of “is there such thing as a good business man?”
There’s good for /their/ business. But is that- in general - good?
Yeah, Steve Jobs was definitely an asshole, and he didn’t personally design any of his products, but he did know what direction to move things in and what consumers wanted in a phone. He was the first to put a truly usable portable touchscreen computer into our pockets with a phone in it, and every phone nowadays is basically just a reimagined, upgraded version of the first iPhone. The way we communicate is forever changed because of the iPhone.
But yeah iPhone’s are kind of the pinnacle of “how much can we fuck you over before you notice” now. All because of the little Apple on the back of the phone.
There is a story that the concept of touchscreen phones was stolen from a Nokia engineer who tried to get nokia to produce them but the feature was dismissed as a ‘gimmick’.
I don’t hate Jobs for that, but I despise almost every other fucking company panicking in order to copy that shit. Blackberry keyboards were great stuff in the early 2010s.
He was a visionary who was able to see the applicability of new technology, and was able to force his will for better than the standard upon people who would otherwise have thought the improvements impossible. The guy was a fucking jerk, that’s true, but he also completely changed the world with his vision. To say he was nothing more than a Musk, or a thief, is to be disingenuous.
but he also completely changed the world with his vision
Which is a fucking shame, because his vision sucked for the most part. “Less power to the consumers, let them grovel for our products; You can only use our products the way we demand you to; Fuck repairability, buy new; Fuck keyboards”
I feel like he had a part in the first apple. Wozniac did the work but Jobs sold it. Selling and marketing are not easy and a different skill set. I’d be curious what Wozniac has to say about it though.
Not only Jobs managed to sell, he managed to sell way above cost. Apple became synonymous with premium features, even when it was clearly lagging behind the competition in terms of raw power (late 80’s) or offering sub par experiences.
It wasn’t even his company, they stole the concept from another company. The home button also wasn’t an apple original. The “sum of the parts” was the “original” thing
He was also right about not supporting Flash on the iPhone. People wanted to crucify him for that, but better video and web standards came about because of it, and we’re all better off living in a world without Flash.
Steve Jobs did at least actually do things. Musk just buys things and claims he did them.
Nah Jobs didn’t do anything himself. From Wozniaks first computer up to the multitouch display for the iPhone, all of these things were just bought/stolen/copied. Jobs just knew how to put these technologies into something that would sell.
So elon but a good businessman
Salesman
Jesus I’m no Elon fan but how many companies do you have to take from a couple million to hundreds of billions before you’re good at your job?
What is it with modern society and the need to reduce everything about a person just because they’re a POS? He might be evil but he’s clearly pretty good at being a businessman or you wouldn’t even know his name.
But… he literally isn’t. Like just look at twitter, he has ruined it from day one with bad decisions day after day whose impacts haven’t shown directly, but now appear more and more with embarrassing effects (The verification badge which is now worthless and has been used to impersonate people and cooperations, the two factor authentification which stopped working, the self-DDOSing, the maximum amounts of tweets one could view per day, the old tweets that got deleted due to a glitch, etc.)
And in other companies it’s mostly other people managing the stuff and cleaning up the mess he leaves; especially SpaceX is currently just glad that he isn’t too busy with his X playtoy to bother them.
The only thing you may call him somewhat successful in is making out companies that have a potential so he could get into them early and claim their success.
Elon is (maybe was) very much good at what he does. Twitter is a bad example because that whole shit show was a dick measuring content from the get-go.
Fact is, SpaceX wouldn’t be SpaceX and Tesla sure as fuck would not be Tesla without his leadership.
He’s a piece of shit as a person, and I’d never want to work for him, because his work ethic is unhealthy to say the least (and I personally have a pretty extreme work ethic), but it’s schoolyard nonsense to claim he’s somehow bad at business. Leading a business may be the one thing he is good at. It’s tossing shit just to toss shit.
You can not like him and acknowledge he is good at things.
You’re right, it wouldn’t; it would almost certainly be a better company.
Musk got Tesla where it is financially entirely through blatant fraud. “Earning” the company’s absurd valuation based almost entirely on dishonest promises of releasing a technology that is entirely unachievable, undesirable, and dangerous is an unsustainable business model, and it’s already showing cracks.
The fact that you seem to think that being highly profitable through constant ethical violations in every aspect of the company is to viewed as a succsess is honestly pretty gross.
I live in the real world, in which the Tesla turnaround happened before the self driving shit
It’s a completely different business vertical. Running a government rocketship contract or vehicle manufacturer isnt the same as software development or social media. Plus he’s made so many decisions that are laughably stupid to the layman that it almost seems like he’s tanking it purposefully.
Businesses aren’t all the same and the same type of person can’t run all of them. It’s like asking your heart doctor to give you a urologists opinion.
Tesla started with almost nothing, SpaceX was his from the ground up. I’m not certain how much of Paypal was his but something tells me he was in management there too.
No one’s claiming he developed the Tesla Model 3, or engineered the landing system of the Dragon boosters himself. He has been in charge of the people who have though, and he seems to be doing well enough of a job to keep those companies going.
So he’s not good at managing a social media platform specifically, if he’s actually trying and this isn’t just a long con to destroy the site for some other end goal.
Being a succsessful businessman does not make one a good businessman. Half of the equation is ethics, because it fucking matters.
A successful businessman with bad ethics and an unsuccsessful one with good ethics are both bad businessmen.
The only good businessman is one who both succeeds and has good ethics.
While he has had some success, he’s also demonstrably been a glory hog benefiting from crazy good luck.
He had an Internet company during the first dot com boom. He got a bunch of cash from Compaq for effectively nothing, because businesses had to snap up anything vaguely Internet. Right place at right time, basically won a lottery.
So then he founded an Internet bank. But want allowed to lead it, no matter, either way it was overshadowed by PayPal, which was a runaway success. Somehow he managed a merger with him being put in charge of the joint company. Then he almost tanked it and was put aside to salvage the company. However, he managed to be popularly thought of as “the PayPal guy”
He founded SpaceX. Off the top of my head, that one seems fair enough.
Then you have Tesla, which existed prior to him Knowing about it, yet he still insisted on being called a founder. It’s possible that without him, Tesla wouldn’t have gone far, but either way, he’s been a glory hog about it to the point of again getting himself framed as “the” Tesla guy.
Also in the case of Tesla, it was a company entering a market with virtually zero competition. Compare the available fully electric cars of 2013-4 and take a wild guess as to which consumers were drooling over: the one that looks like an actual car or ones that screams “eco-friendly toy” (Mitsubishi i, Nissan Leaf)?
without the good, or the (hu)man(ity)
There’s no version of this reality where Jobs isn’t a good businessman. You might not like the company or their products, but they’ve somehow managed to build a huge and successful business selling those overpriced toys to tons of people. They managed to create a cult around expensive consumer electronics. That is a massive success no matter how you slice it. And you can’t deny that Jobs played a big part in that.
Also you can tie it directly to Jobs, because when he was gone for a bit, apple fuckin tanked, and then he came back and they came out with the iPod.
That’s not an accident.
The weird thing is that Apple without Jobs was a failure, but also Jobs without Apple was also a failure.
it was just a gag for comic effect. it wasn’t the breadth and depth of my thoughts and feelings of the digital and manufacturing epochs since the 1980s.
But also, it was kind of begging the question of “is there such thing as a good business man?”
There’s good for /their/ business. But is that- in general - good?
Does the current head of Larian Studios count as a businessman? If so, that’s one I would consider good for the company AND the consumers
Yeah, Steve Jobs was definitely an asshole, and he didn’t personally design any of his products, but he did know what direction to move things in and what consumers wanted in a phone. He was the first to put a truly usable portable touchscreen computer into our pockets with a phone in it, and every phone nowadays is basically just a reimagined, upgraded version of the first iPhone. The way we communicate is forever changed because of the iPhone.
But yeah iPhone’s are kind of the pinnacle of “how much can we fuck you over before you notice” now. All because of the little Apple on the back of the phone.
There is a story that the concept of touchscreen phones was stolen from a Nokia engineer who tried to get nokia to produce them but the feature was dismissed as a ‘gimmick’.
I could believe that too tbh
He didn’t know what customers wanted in a phone.
He knew what customers would want in a phone when they were taught about its existence.
The customers had no idea they would want it before he showed it to them.
Just like how Elon did not design his rockets, SpaceX engineers did, Steve did not design the iPhone, Apple engineers did.
Also everyone seems to conveniently forget about the factory workers actually building them.
Jobs insisted on removing the keypad from a smartphone. He didn’t make the multitouch display, but he did force app developers to take it seriously.
The iPhone didn’t originally have apps other than basic ones that shipped with the phone, like Safari, YouTube, calculator, etc…
People hacked the first gen to run things like an NES emulator. Apple promptly shut that down and introduced the app store.
I don’t hate Jobs for that, but I despise almost every other fucking company panicking in order to copy that shit. Blackberry keyboards were great stuff in the early 2010s.
He was a visionary who was able to see the applicability of new technology, and was able to force his will for better than the standard upon people who would otherwise have thought the improvements impossible. The guy was a fucking jerk, that’s true, but he also completely changed the world with his vision. To say he was nothing more than a Musk, or a thief, is to be disingenuous.
Which is a fucking shame, because his vision sucked for the most part. “Less power to the consumers, let them grovel for our products; You can only use our products the way we demand you to; Fuck repairability, buy new; Fuck keyboards”
Gonna have to learn how to necromance if you wanna keep sucking that dick.
I feel like he had a part in the first apple. Wozniac did the work but Jobs sold it. Selling and marketing are not easy and a different skill set. I’d be curious what Wozniac has to say about it though.
Not only Jobs managed to sell, he managed to sell way above cost. Apple became synonymous with premium features, even when it was clearly lagging behind the competition in terms of raw power (late 80’s) or offering sub par experiences.
What things did he do?
He invented the rounded rectangle, all hail
There’s also the flat mouse
Jobs insisted on selling a touchscreen-only smartphone. Turns out, he was right on that one.
But like, he didn’t design or build it himself. His company did.
So by that logic he’s still the same as Musk, who insisted on a mass-market EV car or reusable rockets.
It wasn’t even his company, they stole the concept from another company. The home button also wasn’t an apple original. The “sum of the parts” was the “original” thing
He was also right about not supporting Flash on the iPhone. People wanted to crucify him for that, but better video and web standards came about because of it, and we’re all better off living in a world without Flash.
He was a world-class jump-ropesman, for one
Didn’t Musk start SpaceX? That’s, at least, one thing. Too bad he can’t stick to it.
No, he bought it from others and made them sign a contract letting him claim he’s the original founder.
Start? Nope.
Tru
This sells Musk short. He is making smart entrepreneurial decisions for the most part. I hate the monkey testing controversy though.