Obviously this question is only for people who eat beef regularly.
But I just was wondering, what IQ/ability would make you swear off beef? If they could speak like an 8 y.o, would that be enough to cut off beef? If they got an IQ of 80, would that do it?
I’ll go with the Hitchhiker’s Guide to the Galaxy answer and say the cow likely will offer me in person which cuts of meat I prefer. It’s sole purpose in life is to be part of the food cycle. It knows that and it accepts it.
And that’s what i say, it I ever meet something higher on the food chain, I will hand myself over and give it a clap.
If they were smart enough to start protesting, I could see myself eating mor chikin.
Yeah, even if the spelling on their protest signs was atrocious, I’d still appreciate the effort and order some nuggets.
I don’t know if there’s an IQ amount, but there’s probably a dollar amount. The more expensive it gets, the less I’ll eat, and then eventually I won’t bother.
Basically the same here. Pepsi has basically priced themselves out of the market for me.
At the point where it consciously knows that we breed and slaughter them for meat. That would be my red line. I don’t know what IQ that equals to.
How do you know livestock cows don’t already know this?
I know they don’t know this consciously because of their behaviour. If we suppose they were intelligent enough to understand their predicament, I would expect them to protest in some way. For example by breaking out of their captivitity, trying to kill their captors, or even commit suicide.
This is not the behaviour we observe from cows. They seem perfectly happy to bond with and follow along their captors (farmers) right up to the point where they get a bolt through their head.
This - to me - clearly indicates that they are far below an intelligence level where they can understand the living conditions we put them in.
Because they’ll just walk into the slaugherhouse unaware like a dumb cow.
How low would my IQ have to be for you to let part of my omnivorous diet be meat ?
Would 80 do it ?
The point at which it could collaborate with others and fight back.
Until then, it looks like meat is back on the menu, Boys!
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No smarter than they are now.
Do you eat beef regularly? If so, then you would stop, and if you’ve already stopped you were precluded from this question so really shouldn’t have answered.
I do currently, but I was vegetarian for over a decade and vegan for part of that. I never buy beef and only eat it because I work in a restaurant and eat for free.
But the intelligence isn’t really at issue, the ecological impact is why I don’t buy beef. That and the taste: it’s a C-grade meat at best, way below pork and most poultry, especially given the higher price point.
I think it should be mandatory for everyone to spend at least one day of their young adult life hunting, killing, dressing, and cooking. The experience will likely alter the person’s entire outlook on life and meat in general.
I never forget that meat was a life that mattered; with a personality; good and bad days; life; experience; struggle it lost to me. It doesn’t stop me from eating meat. I wish I had the ability to hunt for what I need. I know my own ethics, like when to take a clean shot, and only taking what I need. Animals in industrial livestock facilities are mostly managed by unethical criminals. None of us asked to be born in such an overpopulated world. Unfortunately, this is the impossible problem. If you are smart enough to see the issue of overpopulation, that is great, but even if you avoid having children, those that are not so bright will always enumerate.
That’s the paradox though isn’t it?
If smart people were “too smart to reproduce” then we have a whole generation being raised by people who weren’t
I think your should stop eating any meat the moment you don’t feel like you have what it takes to look at the animal in the eye while you kill it for consumption.
If you think you can’t do that, then you should reconsider your meat consumption.
I’m approaching this point in my life and reducing consumption accordingly.
Cows can be moderately smart when raised as such. It’s humans who selected the specific traits we considered more convenient for our needs, and breed them like that.
Would that philosophy extend to other parts of life? I feel like at the surface this sounds great, but when thinking why this sounds great i cant help but wonder if its even possible to look at choices with these kind of angles.
It’s a good question. I don’t know. There are many reasons why I like meat. And there are many reasons why it’s problematic.
I think this is a potentially applicable philosophy. It won’t solve the “problems” but at least will make it a more consistent experience for everyone involved (except the animal perhaps)
Intelligence has nothing to do with it. Intelligence isn’t even well defined or measurable. Things like IQ are designed for humans, so they would not be applicable to other beings. They’re barely even useful for human applications.
It’s an interesting question though. First, I’ll ask myself why I eat beef in the first place.
- It’s tasty
- It’s relatively cheap
- Very nutrient dense, so it’s easier to consume
Why do I not eat dogs or cats?
- They are not socially acceptable to consume
- They contribute positively to my life in other ways than being a food source
I’m pretty sure that a dog/cat could be dumb as a rock and I still wouldn’t eat them because I’d still enjoy their company.
Now I do try to reduce the amount of beef I consume, but it’s mainly for environmental reasons.
Cows and pigs are great company and can get really attached to you.
How does that differ - but just social norms?
Nothing. That’s my point. Unless you count the practicality of having a pet cow/pig in a city.
Ah, ok, gotcha. Then we see it the same, I think
Well, some people believe that pigs are as smart as toddlers. So a cow would, at a minimum, have to be smarter than a pig.
Have you met a toddler? They’re fucking stupid
Well, some people believe that pigs are as smart as toddlers. So a cow would, at a minimum, have to be smarter than a pig.
Kind of an interesting thought process. It seems like the assumption is “I’m doing it, so it has to be fine”.
The problem with thinking that way is people have flaws, and if you think like that you’ll just take it as a given whatever you’re doing is already correct and never fix any personal issues.
They’re already smart enough :) but up close they’re a burpy gassy mess, feels like a sentient bioreactor who is really fussy about what delicious grasses their friends found on the other side of the hill.
I raised some pigs a few years ago and I kept waiting for that time when I’d go out to their pen and look into their eyes and swear off meat forever.
It never happened. They were fucking delicious and I’m glad they’re dead. Pigs are fleshy bulldozers wrapped around a garbage disposal.
Lol, ok Ron Swanson.
Smart enough to feel pain.
Even plants can do that.
Even plants can do that.
There’s no reason for a rational person to believe this. There’s just no evidence for plants feeling pain. They can react to some stimuli of course, but experiencing things is a different matter.
how do you know
A pop science article using misleading language to drive traffic. They don’t literally scream.
Anyway, no one is saying that plants can’t react to stimuli. There’s a difference between nociception and experiencing pain, fear, or other emotions. There’s no evidence that plants (or any creature without a CNS) can do that.
They literally do scream. Textbook definition.
“The car’s tires screamed in protest as he drifted around the curve.”
From this we can conclude that tires are sentient.
that doesn’t mean they feel pain
That is why by law cows are made unconscious before slaughtered.
In which country? I’ve never heard of this, at least in the US.
Thanks for the link. It says nothing about making them unconscious before slaughter. They’re just saying that the slaughter should be quick and not subject the animals to additional suffering beforehand:
No method of slaughtering or handling in connection with slaughtering shall be deemed to comply with the public policy of the United States unless it is humane. Either of the following two methods of slaughtering and handling are hereby found to be humane:
(a) in the case of cattle, calves, horses, mules, sheep, swine, and other livestock, all animals are rendered insensible to pain by a single blow or gunshot or an electrical, chemical or other means that is rapid and effective, before being shackled, hoisted, thrown, cast, or cut; or
(b) by slaughtering in accordance with the ritual requirements of the Jewish faith or any other religious faith that prescribes a method of slaughter whereby the animal suffers loss of consciousness by anemia of the brain caused by the simultaneous and instantaneous severance of the carotid arteries with a sharp instrument and handling in connection with such slaughtering.
The Act requires all meat companies selling to the US government to provide stunning by mechanical, electrical, or chemical means prior to the killing of cattle, calves, horses, mules, sheep, swine, and other livestock, except in the case of slaughter for religious or ritual purposes. Stunning must be accomplished in a manner that is rapid and effective before the animal is shackled, hoisted, thrown, cast, or cut. (While the law refers to “other livestock,” poultry is not specifically included.)
So I went a little further by reading parts of the actual regulations, i.e., the implementation and enforcement of the act, because I’m genuinely curious to learn about this. It seems that they’re defining stunning as basically destroying the brain of the animal before killing the body. For instance: “Unconsciousness is produced immediately by physical brain destruction and a combination of changes in intracranial pressure and acceleration concussion.” It seems like a distinction without a difference, since they’re essentially killing the animal by “stunning” it or making it “unconscious”.
Stunning it doesn’t kill it, it renders it unable to feel pain. They sell the cow brain so no, it doesn’t destroy it. Midwesterners love some cow brain to eat, it’s sold in grocery stores.
When they’re capable of doing a conversation with me.
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They’ll basically need to become smart enough to sue for their right not to be eaten and win before I stop eating them.
