Hey folks!

I made a short post last night explaining why image uploads had been disabled. This was in the middle of the night for me, so I did not have time to go into a lot of detail, but I’m writing a more detailed post now to clear up where we are now and where we plan to go.

What’s the problem?

As shared by the lemmy.world team, over the past few days, some people have been spamming one of their communities with CSAM images. Lemmy has been attacked in various ways before, but this is clearly on a whole new level of depravity, as it’s first and foremost an attack on actual victims of child abuse, in addition to being an attack on the users and admins on Lemmy.

What’s the solution?

I am putting together a plan, both for the short term and for the longer term, to combat and prevent such content from ever reaching lemm.ee servers.

For the immediate future, I am taking the following steps:

1) Image uploads are completely disabled for all users

This is a drastic measure, and I am aware that it’s the opposite of what many of our users have been hoping, but at the moment, we simply don’t have the necessary tools to safely handle uploaded images.

2) All images which have federated in from other instances will be deleted from our servers, without any exception

At this point, we have millions of such images, and I am planning to just indiscriminately purge all of them. Posts from other instances will not be broken after the deletion, the deleted images will simply be loaded directly from other instances.

3) I will apply a small patch to the Lemmy backend running on lemm.ee to prevent images from other instances from being downloaded to our servers

Lemmy has always loaded some images directly from other servers, while saving other images locally to serve directly. I am eliminating the second option for the time being, forcing all images uploaded on external instances to always be loaded from those servers. This will somewhat increase the amount of servers which users will fetch images from when opening lemm.ee, which certainly has downsides, but I believe this is preferable to opening up our servers to potentially illegal content.

For the longer term, I have some further ideas:

4) Invite-based registrations

I believe that one of the best ways to effectively combat spam and malicious users is to implement an invite system on Lemmy. I have wanted to work on such a system ever since I first set up this instance, but real life and other things have been getting in the way, so I haven’t had a chance. However, with the current situation, I believe this feature is more important then ever, and I’m very hopeful I will be able to make time to work on it very soon.

My idea would be to grant our users a few invites, which would replenish every month if used. An invite will be required to sign up on lemm.ee after that point. The system will keep track of the invite hierarchy, and in extreme cases (such as spambot sign-ups), inviters may be held responsible for rule breaking users they have invited.

While this will certainly create a barrier of entry to signing up on lemm.ee, we are already one of the biggest instances, and I think at this point, such a barrier will do more good than harm.

5) Account requirements for specific activities

This is something that many admins and mods have been discussing for a while now, and I believe it would be an important feature for lemm.ee as well. Essentially, I would like to limit certain activities to users which meet specific requirements (maybe account age, amount of comments, etc). These activities might include things like image uploads, community creation, perhaps even private messages.

This could in theory limit creation of new accounts just to break rules (or laws).

6) Automated ML based NSFW scanning for all uploaded images

I think it makes sense to apply automatic scanning on all images before we save them on our servers, and if it’s flagged as NSFW, then we don’t accept the upload. While machine learning is not 100% accurate and will produce false positives, I believe this is a trade-off that we simply need to accept at this point. Not only will this help against any potential CSAM, it will also help us better enforce our “no pornography” rule.

This would potentially also allow us to resume caching images from other instances, which will improve both performance and privacy on lemm.ee.


With all of the above in place, I believe we will be able to re-enable image uploads with a much higher degree of safety. Of course, most of these ideas come with some significant downsides, but please keep in mind that users posting CSAM present an existential threat to Lemmy (in addition to just being absolutely morally disgusting and actively harmful to the victims of the abuse). If the choice is between having a Lemmy instance with some restrictions, or not having a Lemmy instance at all, then I think the restrictions are the better option.

I also would appreciate your patience in this matter, as all of the long term plans require additional development, and while this is currently a high priority issue for all Lemmy admins, we are all still volunteers and do not have the freedom to dedicate huge amounts of hours to working on new features.


As always, your feedback and thoughts are appreciated, so please feel free to leave a comment if you disagree with any of the plans or if you have any suggestions on how to improve them.

  • PlasmaDistortion@lemm.ee
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    128
    ·
    1 year ago

    Personally I say just leave hosting of images to dedicated sites for that purpose. Your efforts are better left to dealing with how to render them. That being said, I use to be in charge of managing abuse on a site that has an average of 20 million posts a month (seriously).

    The way I essentially defeated these kinds of attacks was with an image scanning service. It scans for anything NSFW and blocks it. Sometimes things would make it through but once an admin flagged it we could use that to block the users IP and account. It’s not cheap but the volume is also not huge yet for lemm.ee so it might not be too bad.

    • TWeaK@lemm.ee
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      60
      ·
      1 year ago

      This is my opinion also. Reddit turned to shit around the time they started self-hosting. Imgur only exists because people needed a place to host reddit images.

        • TWeaK@lemm.ee
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          36
          ·
          edit-2
          1 year ago

          No, but there’s nothing stopping you from using direct links from imgur, in traditional fashion.

          It’s a little bit convoluted, though. You have to post the image, then hover over and select “Get share links”, and then pick the option for BB code (forums). This has the [img] tags at the start and finish, but importantly it has the direct link to the image file. If you use this on lemmy then it will load in the instance, rather than directing to imgur itself.

          • JohnDClay@sh.itjust.works
            link
            fedilink
            arrow-up
            9
            ·
            1 year ago

            Imgur is deleting images over a certain age posted anonymously. And they might continue to decrease the number of images they keep to try to be closer to profitability. So that will be bad for longevity of content.

            • winterwulf@lemm.ee
              link
              fedilink
              arrow-up
              3
              ·
              1 year ago

              reddit is the new imgur. I post stuff to my reddit profile grab the image link and post here. let spezz pay the bill for hosting our images.

              • tsonfeir@lemm.ee
                link
                fedilink
                arrow-up
                1
                ·
                11 months ago

                This is brilliant. someone should make a way for us to provide login info to reddit that will just “login” and “post” an image to some random private sub, then return the url. A browser plugin would probably do this easily.

        • Hubi@feddit.de
          link
          fedilink
          arrow-up
          15
          ·
          1 year ago

          I’ve seen people link to uploads on Pixelfed, though this is probably not the intended use case.

        • Bongles@lemm.ee
          link
          fedilink
          arrow-up
          1
          ·
          1 year ago

          Not yet but I wish there was. I use imgur quite a lot and I like the idea of a fediverse version. Especially with the direction they’ve gone lately.

    • Franzia@lemmy.blahaj.zone
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      18
      ·
      1 year ago

      Yeah genuinely we could all be hosting images for free or cheap on several image sites. Even NSFW images and videos! And it would save our instance admins a lot of headaches and probably some cost too.

    • JohnDClay@sh.itjust.works
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      9
      ·
      1 year ago

      Personally I say just leave hosting of images to dedicated sites for that purpose.

      They aren’t profitable, so they’ll eventually go down. If no one is looking at their site, why keep it going just to serve other sights?