Anything involving Copilot makes me happy to be a Mac user.
If you have a machine that runs Windows and the hardware is still good, it’s time to give Linux a chance. Look into Proton for gaming (it’s a translation layer, like WINE I suppose). And let’s stop acting like Macs are the odd one out. Macs run UNIX. Windows is the odd one out! ;)
MacOS or whatever they call it now is “unix-like” but it’s still ultimately a closed environment and definitely not the same, ethically, as a real FOSS OS. Apple doesn’t care about you any more than Microsoft or Google, they’re also in it for money.
I keep hearing it’s certified UNIX, and if you don’t know “what they call it” despite me saying so in the post you replied to, I question your comprehension of the material in general.
Now, I’m not a UNIX guy, and I always thought it was bizarre that people said that. So I looked it up. I neither like nor trust Google, so I searched “macOS UNIX certification” on DuckDuckGo, which I believe uses Bing? Still not ideal, but at this point any search engine is going to get us some meaningful searches.
DDG’s AI companion says this: MacOS has been certified as UNIX compliant, specifically as UNIX® 03, which means it adheres to an older version of the Single UNIX Specification. This certification indicates that macOS meets certain programming interface standards, but it does not necessarily reflect the latest UNIX standards.
The top link is from The Open Group which declares itself to be the official register of UNIX certified products. They list Apple macOS 26.0 Tahoe at the top (probably because Apple comes first alphabetically).
The Register is a little more dubious on the subject. It claims that macOS 15 Sequoia (the previous version; before they went to year-name releases rather than sequential) was also UNIX certified, but it goes on to say there are different certifications which are upgraded each year, and Apple only qualifies for UNIX 3 from 2002. It seems like there are much newer certifications Apple could maybe go after, but hasn’t. It goes into what the certification means, but this isn’t that interesting to me. But there is the link for anyone curious enough to dig.
Finally, OS News claims the certification is a lie but this is mainly clickbait. It says the same thing as The Register, that Apple only achieves the UNIX 3 certification. Then it goes on to accuse Apple of cheating to get to that point, and goes into some code — way past my expertise.
Today, I am a little bit more educated on macOS UNIX certification than I was yesterday. Maybe some of you are, too. Or maybe not, I really don’t know. We’re all on different paths. However, I am not convinced to change my assertion that it should be “Linux and macOS against Windows” rather than “Linux and Windows against macOS.” The latter just seems wrong — why would Linux and Windows users align at all? Other than more similar hardware. Whereas Linux and macOS are both improvements over Windows.
Another thought occurs: is it even Linux users who are going against Mac users? I think it’s probably mostly just Windows users trying to spread FUD.
That’s really interesting and I appreciate taking the time to write that comment, but I’d put Mac and Windows on the same team because their goals are basically the same, to transfer wealth from the consumer to the company. Linux, and open source software in general, does not have that same motivation to squeeze the consumer so of course it’s going to be better.
Mac hardware gets sold at tremendous markup because it’s so closed. Windows is little more than a vessel to show ads. Linux is a good experience from installation onward, almost regardless of distribution. Free of telemetry and runs on literally whatever, if it can run code it can probably run Linux. I have a laptop from 2011 that runs Arch with XFCE and it’s buttery smooth. My 2012 MacBook pro has been a paperweight for years and Microsoft wants me to throw away anything that can’t be tied to me personally.
That said I would MUCH rather use macos than windows, my wife has an m1 MacBook Air that I use sometimes and it’s definitely more pleasant than Windows. However, I think Linux is the odd man out. MacOS vs Windows is like stubbing your left toe vs your right toe.
I run Arch btw on my gaming PC and my old ass laptop I can show you my qualifications if you want 😂
We may collect information such as occupation, language, zip code, area code, unique device identifier, referrer URL, location, and the time zone where an Apple product is used so that we can better understand customer behavior and improve our products, services, and advertising. We may collect information regarding customer activities on our website, iCloud services, our iTunes Store, App Store, Mac App Store, App Store for Apple TV and iBooks Stores and from our other products and services. This information is aggregated and used to help us provide more useful information to our customers and to understand which parts of our website, products, and services are of most interest. Aggregated data is considered non‑personal information for the purposes of this Privacy Policy. We may collect and store details of how you use our services, including search queries. This information may be used to improve the relevancy of results provided by our services. Except in limited instances to ensure quality of our services over the Internet, such information will not be associated with your IP address. With your explicit consent, we may collect data about how you use your device and applications in order to help app developers improve their apps.
It seems to me like they collect telemetry just like Windows, and of course some Mac apps do have advertising which is personalized according to the beginning.
Apple has been doing extremely invasive telemetry tracking of your usage since before the release of Big Sur. Gee, I wonder where Microsoft got the idea to invasively gather all this telemetry from the user in the first place?
Anonymised telemetry is different from collecting information to sell for marketing, though.
Of course, in the realm of privacy, everyone should know their own threat model. Anonymised telemetry is not a threat to me. But if it’s a threat to you (nebulous term — the person to whom I am replying, or anyone reading), then none of the big tech companies offer viable alternatives. You (same audience) cannot say Apple’s telemetry is a problem and then use anything from Microsoft, Google, or Meta.
For my threat model, Meta/Facebook has always been a bridge too far. Google has too, for the most part. I used to think Microsoft was fine, but no longer do. But, that’s just me.
This is stuff they collect when you are interacting with Apple services. The problem with windows copilot is that it collects info about everything you do, even when it has nothing to do with Microsoft.
That’s crazy because Apple is ALSO collecting telemetry at all times just like Copilot is, but Apple has brainwashed too many idiots with their master-level marketing that everyone comes running to hypocritically defend Apple doing what Microsoft does, despite the fact that Apple has been doing this years before Microsoft had the capability or appetite to do the same thing.
Does “our other products and services” not include macOS? I mean, you don’t stop interacting with their product when you open other programs. You’re using their product as a means of accessing them.
No advertising company really sells data to third parties. Keeping data to yourself and only selling advertising spots is what brings money. Companies generally don’t like strengthening their competition.
I don’t think people’s concern is that Microsoft is selling data, but that it is collecting it to began with. So for those people Apple wouldn’t be any better for PC use, since they are more likely to just be tired of pushing of account logins and data collection for desktop OS.
Point of Apple seemed more to me people liking the aesthics and performance of MacOS itself than seeing it as a privacy respecting OS.
If you have a machine that runs Windows and the hardware is still good,
Linux is often more forgiving on hardware requirements. I recently put Mint (with xfce) on a like 2013 laptop and it’s fine. That’s not even an especially lightweight distribution.
Yes, it is. Mostly what Windows 11 won’t run on is not a matter of the machine’s capability of running the software, it’s more about the hardware security to back Microsoft’s DRM shit.
Even if Linux Mint isn’t especially lightweight, there’s a Linux distro for just about everybody out there. You could probably find one that runs on 00’s or maybe, possibly, even 90s hardware, it would look like shit, it might look like OSes from back then, but it still could have modern support for whatever you want to tack onto it. I will never underestimate the versatility of Linux and its community.
Can confirm, I had a laptop that took multiple minutes to boot and was sluggish as hell, installed linux and after that it booted in 5-10 seconds and felt snappy again
A year ago I put kali on a 2008 netbook and now it has a new life to be my shop machine so I don’t have to use a touchscreen when I need a man with a heavy accent tell me how to replace the bearings on a 1989 planetary gear made by a company that hasn’t existed since 1988
Proton is WINE, it’s a fork maintained by Valve and Codeweaver with DXVK (Direct X -> Vulkan) on top. If you use Steam for gaming it will set up proton automatically for you.
And yes macOS is a step up from Windows, but it’s still a walled garden. Want to develop an iOS app? You must buy a Mac, you must buy a developer license, you must use the worst IDE ever created, and you must distribute it through the app store (except in Europe in theory, but they worked hard to make the experience so miserable that almost no one bothers).
Doesn’t Mac have something similar to Recall that they caught less flack for? I wouldn’t trust Apple over Microsoft, they both want your data, Apple just has a façade of privacy awareness that they use to make sure others can’t get their users data too
Mac used to have Time Machine, which was an automated, timed backup system. I think it was deprecated in the latest build? I never used it (only been a Mac user since 2023). I seem to remember hearing that Time Machine volumes — drives set up for that express purpose — were not going to be supported in the new version, which came out last month.
I don’t remember Apple ever catching flak for Time Machine though, so we may be thinking of different things.
So yes, as previously established by someone else, Apple collects telemetry like the rest of them. They don’t sell it to marketers though. They are still a computer/hardware company, not an advertising company (though, they do run ads).
If you’re a gamer and you recognise that macOS is the worst computer platform for gaming, that’s fine, but tell it to a gaming community. You’re in a privacy community. I’m a gamer, but read the room. Not everyone in a privacy community is a gamer willing to sell privacy for a platform more friendly to gaming.
The article you linked says rewind 3rd party, opt in, and stored locally. I don’t think anyone would have an issue with microsoft’s AI either if it was opt in and without telemetry.
I hate that for you. Adobe has gotten worse over the years, but I suppose I don’t have to tell you that. There are a lot of great alternatives out there — I probably don’t have to tell you that either — and I hope one day you can switch to them.
Of course, that’s why work is a four letter word, and you can’t eat your wants.
Preaching to the choir, friend! I’d love it if I never had to deal with premiere deciding to change its entire layout every six months ever again, but alas
Anything involving Copilot makes me happy to be a Mac user.
If you have a machine that runs Windows and the hardware is still good, it’s time to give Linux a chance. Look into Proton for gaming (it’s a translation layer, like WINE I suppose). And let’s stop acting like Macs are the odd one out. Macs run UNIX. Windows is the odd one out! ;)
Whenever I hear about heart disease, I’m sure glad I have cancer!
MacOS or whatever they call it now is “unix-like” but it’s still ultimately a closed environment and definitely not the same, ethically, as a real FOSS OS. Apple doesn’t care about you any more than Microsoft or Google, they’re also in it for money.
I keep hearing it’s certified UNIX, and if you don’t know “what they call it” despite me saying so in the post you replied to, I question your comprehension of the material in general.
Now, I’m not a UNIX guy, and I always thought it was bizarre that people said that. So I looked it up. I neither like nor trust Google, so I searched “macOS UNIX certification” on DuckDuckGo, which I believe uses Bing? Still not ideal, but at this point any search engine is going to get us some meaningful searches.
DDG’s AI companion says this: MacOS has been certified as UNIX compliant, specifically as UNIX® 03, which means it adheres to an older version of the Single UNIX Specification. This certification indicates that macOS meets certain programming interface standards, but it does not necessarily reflect the latest UNIX standards.
The top link is from The Open Group which declares itself to be the official register of UNIX certified products. They list Apple macOS 26.0 Tahoe at the top (probably because Apple comes first alphabetically).
The Register is a little more dubious on the subject. It claims that macOS 15 Sequoia (the previous version; before they went to year-name releases rather than sequential) was also UNIX certified, but it goes on to say there are different certifications which are upgraded each year, and Apple only qualifies for UNIX 3 from 2002. It seems like there are much newer certifications Apple could maybe go after, but hasn’t. It goes into what the certification means, but this isn’t that interesting to me. But there is the link for anyone curious enough to dig.
Finally, OS News claims the certification is a lie but this is mainly clickbait. It says the same thing as The Register, that Apple only achieves the UNIX 3 certification. Then it goes on to accuse Apple of cheating to get to that point, and goes into some code — way past my expertise.
Today, I am a little bit more educated on macOS UNIX certification than I was yesterday. Maybe some of you are, too. Or maybe not, I really don’t know. We’re all on different paths. However, I am not convinced to change my assertion that it should be “Linux and macOS against Windows” rather than “Linux and Windows against macOS.” The latter just seems wrong — why would Linux and Windows users align at all? Other than more similar hardware. Whereas Linux and macOS are both improvements over Windows.
Another thought occurs: is it even Linux users who are going against Mac users? I think it’s probably mostly just Windows users trying to spread FUD.
That’s really interesting and I appreciate taking the time to write that comment, but I’d put Mac and Windows on the same team because their goals are basically the same, to transfer wealth from the consumer to the company. Linux, and open source software in general, does not have that same motivation to squeeze the consumer so of course it’s going to be better.
Mac hardware gets sold at tremendous markup because it’s so closed. Windows is little more than a vessel to show ads. Linux is a good experience from installation onward, almost regardless of distribution. Free of telemetry and runs on literally whatever, if it can run code it can probably run Linux. I have a laptop from 2011 that runs Arch with XFCE and it’s buttery smooth. My 2012 MacBook pro has been a paperweight for years and Microsoft wants me to throw away anything that can’t be tied to me personally.
That said I would MUCH rather use macos than windows, my wife has an m1 MacBook Air that I use sometimes and it’s definitely more pleasant than Windows. However, I think Linux is the odd man out. MacOS vs Windows is like stubbing your left toe vs your right toe.
I run Arch btw on my gaming PC and my old ass laptop I can show you my qualifications if you want 😂
This is from Apple’s privacy policy
It seems to me like they collect telemetry just like Windows, and of course some Mac apps do have advertising which is personalized according to the beginning.
Apple has been doing extremely invasive telemetry tracking of your usage since before the release of Big Sur. Gee, I wonder where Microsoft got the idea to invasively gather all this telemetry from the user in the first place?
Anonymised telemetry is different from collecting information to sell for marketing, though.
Of course, in the realm of privacy, everyone should know their own threat model. Anonymised telemetry is not a threat to me. But if it’s a threat to you (nebulous term — the person to whom I am replying, or anyone reading), then none of the big tech companies offer viable alternatives. You (same audience) cannot say Apple’s telemetry is a problem and then use anything from Microsoft, Google, or Meta.
For my threat model, Meta/Facebook has always been a bridge too far. Google has too, for the most part. I used to think Microsoft was fine, but no longer do. But, that’s just me.
There’s basically no such thing as anonymized telemetry. The data provided is so rich, it is inherently identifying.
This is stuff they collect when you are interacting with Apple services. The problem with windows copilot is that it collects info about everything you do, even when it has nothing to do with Microsoft.
Since you are being vague, I am assuming you are saying thats it’s only exclusive to Apple-made stuff.
You don’t know that, and can’t say bullshit like this as if you are an authority on this subject working at Apple.
Please provide sources for your claims.
His source is your quote, they specify it in their verbiage right there.
That’s crazy because Apple is ALSO collecting telemetry at all times just like Copilot is, but Apple has brainwashed too many idiots with their master-level marketing that everyone comes running to hypocritically defend Apple doing what Microsoft does, despite the fact that Apple has been doing this years before Microsoft had the capability or appetite to do the same thing.
Does “our other products and services” not include macOS? I mean, you don’t stop interacting with their product when you open other programs. You’re using their product as a means of accessing them.
Wasn’t the point of Apple always that they don’t sell the data to third parties and not that they don’t collect anything?
No advertising company really sells data to third parties. Keeping data to yourself and only selling advertising spots is what brings money. Companies generally don’t like strengthening their competition.
That’s marketing bullshit that you fell for hook, line, and sinker.
I don’t think people’s concern is that Microsoft is selling data, but that it is collecting it to began with. So for those people Apple wouldn’t be any better for PC use, since they are more likely to just be tired of pushing of account logins and data collection for desktop OS.
Point of Apple seemed more to me people liking the aesthics and performance of MacOS itself than seeing it as a privacy respecting OS.
Linux is often more forgiving on hardware requirements. I recently put Mint (with xfce) on a like 2013 laptop and it’s fine. That’s not even an especially lightweight distribution.
Yes, it is. Mostly what Windows 11 won’t run on is not a matter of the machine’s capability of running the software, it’s more about the hardware security to back Microsoft’s DRM shit.
Even if Linux Mint isn’t especially lightweight, there’s a Linux distro for just about everybody out there. You could probably find one that runs on 00’s or maybe, possibly, even 90s hardware, it would look like shit, it might look like OSes from back then, but it still could have modern support for whatever you want to tack onto it. I will never underestimate the versatility of Linux and its community.
meanwhile NetBSD runs on toasters from the 90s
Can confirm, I had a laptop that took multiple minutes to boot and was sluggish as hell, installed linux and after that it booted in 5-10 seconds and felt snappy again
A year ago I put kali on a 2008 netbook and now it has a new life to be my shop machine so I don’t have to use a touchscreen when I need a man with a heavy accent tell me how to replace the bearings on a 1989 planetary gear made by a company that hasn’t existed since 1988
Proton is WINE, it’s a fork maintained by Valve and Codeweaver with DXVK (Direct X -> Vulkan) on top. If you use Steam for gaming it will set up proton automatically for you.
And yes macOS is a step up from Windows, but it’s still a walled garden. Want to develop an iOS app? You must buy a Mac, you must buy a developer license, you must use the worst IDE ever created, and you must distribute it through the app store (except in Europe in theory, but they worked hard to make the experience so miserable that almost no one bothers).
Xcode for iOS apps is the shittiest IDE
You can definitely rent a cloud Mac, or use a virtual machine to achieve all that. FUD.
Are you joking right now? Acting like you just won the argument??
This isn’t about « winning the argument » you incel, it’s about DISCUSSION
Doesn’t Mac have something similar to Recall that they caught less flack for? I wouldn’t trust Apple over Microsoft, they both want your data, Apple just has a façade of privacy awareness that they use to make sure others can’t get their users data too
Mac used to have Time Machine, which was an automated, timed backup system. I think it was deprecated in the latest build? I never used it (only been a Mac user since 2023). I seem to remember hearing that Time Machine volumes — drives set up for that express purpose — were not going to be supported in the new version, which came out last month.
I don’t remember Apple ever catching flak for Time Machine though, so we may be thinking of different things.
So yes, as previously established by someone else, Apple collects telemetry like the rest of them. They don’t sell it to marketers though. They are still a computer/hardware company, not an advertising company (though, they do run ads).
If you’re a gamer and you recognise that macOS is the worst computer platform for gaming, that’s fine, but tell it to a gaming community. You’re in a privacy community. I’m a gamer, but read the room. Not everyone in a privacy community is a gamer willing to sell privacy for a platform more friendly to gaming.
The article you linked says rewind 3rd party, opt in, and stored locally. I don’t think anyone would have an issue with microsoft’s AI either if it was opt in and without telemetry.
Recall is meant to run and store locally. The pushback was around Microsoft likely changing this policy in the future, otherwise it’s the same thing.
if only i didn’t have to use adobe products, i’d already be on linux.
I hate that for you. Adobe has gotten worse over the years, but I suppose I don’t have to tell you that. There are a lot of great alternatives out there — I probably don’t have to tell you that either — and I hope one day you can switch to them.
Of course, that’s why work is a four letter word, and you can’t eat your wants.
Preaching to the choir, friend! I’d love it if I never had to deal with premiere deciding to change its entire layout every six months ever again, but alas
Adobe products suck so fucking much, all of the linux alternatives I’ve used are better in every way (for my purposes)
i’m not against alternatives at all, but most of my industry is, and trying to get it all to play nice is more than a headache