Given the name of the leader of this community, I figured I’d throw this out there:
I’ve never read any of Jim Butcher’s books, and have heard good things about The Dresden Files.
Where do I start? Is there a good website to show a suggested reading order, etc?
Storm Front. It’s the weakest book, cause nothing is fleshed out, but it is the start.
That said, I had to quit reading (after 15 books) cause he keeps getting progressively weirder about women.
Yeah his female characters were never great. It’s disappointing to hear it just got worse.
Oh nooooooooooo
It’s an in-character perspective of Dresden, meant to be a character quirk. Jim writes short stories from other perspectives without the same issues, and none of his other series have it either. Unfortunately many readers confuse character perspective with author opinion.
In this case OC just said “he” and could be talking about Harry. Some people also just don’t wanna read that kind of perspective.
It’s also strange that like… every single woman in the series (including a teenager) want to sleep with Harry. There’s nothing wrong with somebody not enjoying reading things like that. Whether the author thinks that way or it’s just a character trait of the main character in the series, a lot of people just don’t want to read constant misogyny.
I can think of quite a few women in the series who aren’t sexually interested in Harry. Probably more than actually are interested in him, when I think about it. So calling it ‘every single woman’ is definitely a stretch
Sorry the “like” usually signifies hyperbole for me and those I generally talk to. Im not saying it’s every woman literally. Just… definitely a lot.
But let’s talk about why people wouldn’t want to read the series. Let’s talk about why people might think the series has things in it that are weird towards women. (For the record, a lot of the series gave me cringes, but I personally stopped reading because by the time peace talks came out I didn’t care anymore. And ghost stories was awful. I do agree with OC that it just keeps getting weirder about women).
Im not going to copy the passage. Im not going to paste an image. Harry Dresden describing his 16 year old apprentice (his friends daughter) felt the need to describe her breasts “straining” her tank top. Then, felt the need to describe her nipple piercings. Then says he didn’t want to know why else was pierced even if it was “a little intriguing”. I think that was also the longest description of a person until that point. I get that you like the series. I liked quite a bit of it myself. I don’t understand how you can’t comprehend that there are valid reasons to think the series is weird about women.
I’ve read all of them. I’ve read other novels with character perspectives about women even worse than the dresden files. However, there are some times where I had to put the book down because it felt… gross. Like unreasonable wish fulfillment that adds nothing to the story.
I think its the fact that it’s the only area in which the reader is supposed to believe that Harry might not be the most reliable narrator? And other characters are kind of guilty of it too.
Again, I’ve read all of them. I probably will continue to read the series as my library gets them available. I like the magic system. I like the world building and the rules. I just find some of Harry’s perspective icky.
Unreliable narrator isn’t the way I’d put it. See https://www.reddit.com/r/dresdenfiles/comments/10vlsra/harry_is_not_an_unreliable_narrator/. It’s, as you say, Harry’s perspective. Yes, we may not agree with it, but I can’t say I find it unrealistic given the genre and his personal history.
In fact, I find it an intriguing moral discussion. Do we judge Harry for his private thoughts, or for his actions? In the real world, the answer would obviously be actions. We are none of us fully in control of our thoughts or urges. The fact that he behaves as a gentleman at all times should be lauded. Instead, many readers seem to think that he should be pure in heart and soul, and hold him to an unreasonably high moral standard.
I just like to not be reminded of the creepy guy in a friend’s circle that everyone kind of pities so they don’t chase them off for fear of being mean. But then that guy gets progressively more gropey when he gives a hug, starts making more comments about everyone woman’s body in the group. And hangs around encouraging women to drink to excess around him.
Tldr: I like to like the main character.
Honestly, has Harry actually done anything creepy? The point is that if we look at only his behaviour, he’s basically a goody two shoes. It’s only if you look within his thoughts that you see the demons within. Which he manages to keep well leashed
I understand that perspective but his “chivalry” at time smacks of chauvinism. And it does get repetitive listening to him justify it to himself (the reader).
Not to mention the whole of Butters’ later romantic situation… which can’t be attributed to Harry’s perspective. Not that there is anything morally or legally wrong with it, it just feels unnecessary to include it. It diminished all the characters in my eyes.
Thank you for sharing the thread on his status as unreliable narrator, it was a good read.
Well put
This was a better argument before Butcher realized he’d need to retcon Molly’s age to not completely disgust the readers, or the events of the latest book and the presumed direction of the next.
I’ve heard that argument before, and fine, I guess, but I have 0 interest in reading a story from the perspective of a pedo.
I doubt the pedo label applies. What does he do or say that would justify calling him that? I’m guessing you’ve never actually read the story?
Ive read 15ish of them. Peace talks I think was last. On multiple occasions throughout the series he talks about how he thinks of the carpenter girls as children, comments some crap about knowing them in diapers right before going on to talk about their tits.
And given how Molly is hitting on him and he makes it very clear to her that it’s not gonna happen, ever, I believe he doesn’t deserve the label. We judge people by their actions, not by the private thoughts in their minds. We can’t control our thoughts, only our actions.
Before molly is his apprentice, he talks about her all creepy. Not even talking about that scene.
And that’s fine, you believe whatever you want. I haven’t said he is a bad person just that reading it isn’t something I want to do. I’m going to let people know what they’re gonna have to put up with, cause Dresden is a creepy fkn dude.
His apprentice is described cringe worthily before she comes of age and not much better later.
He talks about Molly’s little sister in whichever book I bailed on.
Holy shit. He gets weirder? He’s such a neckbeard in the first few that I stopped at like book 4. Maybe 3. I don’t even remember. To be worse, he must start complementing their feet in public or some shit.
On multiple occasions he talks about how he thinks of the carpenter girls as children, comments some crap about knowing them in diapers right before going on to talk about their tits.
Weird how? Some of it feels a little fedora-tippy, but I haven’t read it for a while so I don’t remember any specifics.
On multiple occasions he talks about how he thinks of the carpenter girls as children, comments some crap about knowing them in diapers right before going on to talk about their tits.
Read them in release order, they tell a chronological story. Most places should have them numbered, or you can check Wikipedia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Dresden_Files#Bibliography
I’ll be the contrarian here and suggest that—especially if you’re OK with trying one book out of order and then going back to read the rest just so that you can get a feel for the books—that you start with Dead Beat. It was written as an introduction for new fans when the Dresden files TV show was getting ready to come out. It really shows off some of Jim Butcher’s strengths as an author after he got his feet underneath him. It’s the book that the fairly well-known (spoilery) meme is from.
As to Dresden’s, chauvinism, this older Reddit comment, probably addresses it as well as any I’ve seen. I will say that it isn’t just treated as though it must be there. There are strong, textual and sub-textual reasons why he acts and thinks the way he does, it’s never treated virtuously, it does get him in trouble, and he does realize he has to be better.
First, of all, not a leader, just a mod, trying to do my part in making lemmy a nice place for book readers. 😀
Dresden Files is a pretty fun series, but it’s not some great epitome of literature. It’s a fun and easy to read series, and I am realizing after reading all the comment here, it’s not for everyone. Personally, I don’t have much issue with that. I don’t always agree with the characters of my books, but I can understand if people have issues with that. I would suggest reading a couple of books to see if they are for you.
As for where to start, I always prefer to read in published order, (which in this case is also chronological order), but as everyone else has mentioned first couple of books aren’t that great. The quality improves a lot from the 3rd one. So, if you start from first one, at least read first 3 to make up your mind. Or, you can read “Dead Beat” first, and if you like it, go back and start from the first one.
If you do start reading it, would love to hear your thoughts on how you like it. You can post in our weekly what are you reading thread, or just make a separate post.
Edit: Forgot to mention, the books are pretty formulaic, (don’t know if they improve further along or not), I don’t think I would enjoy them reading back to back. But reading them after adding a break of one or two books is keeping them very enjoyable.
The first book, Storm Front, is awful. Apparently he wrote it as part of a college project? I’ve been told the series gets better as it goes along, but I was never able to get past the first book.
Yeah, I tried reading it to see what all of the fuss was about and I couldn’t get through it.
It was a creative writing class by another author if I remember the story. He had graduated with a literature degree already and was trying and failing to write super high-minded stuff and get it published. This teacher and he were butting heads because she wanted him to basically do a story that he considered trope-y or cliched. So finally he sat down to prove her wrong and out popped the first part of Dresden files. She sent him home to map out the rest and he misunderstood and mapped out the entire series when she meant the rest of the book.
I didn’t even mind the writing. I read the first three or four. I could even get past some of the cliche shit like electronics breaking because he’s a wizard harry. But he is such a m’lady neckbeard that I just gave up.
The beginning is a good place to start! The main books are all ordered chronologically. So pick up Storm Front and get started.
I’d suggest taking a break with something else (another series) every five books or so… apart from a few of them, his stories definitely follow a pattern that becomes quite obvious after a few books and that break keeps them feeling fresh.
At the start, Storm Front. It’s a slow start IMO, the series takes a little while to hit its stride, but it does a lot of “stage setting” that is going to be important later on. I wouldn’t mess with the order, at least until much later in the series.
If you’re an Apple Books user, they have the main books in sets, in order. Actually just started re-reading these 2 days ago.
The books are meant to be read in chronological order, which is publication order for the novels. The short stories can be inserted into the chronological order, or skipped until you’ve read all the novels.
There are two schools of opinion on where to start. His first few books are the weakest, and Jim himself recommends skipping them and starting at Grave Peril. Others recommend just going in at the start so you can meet characters as they’re introduced.
