. So either issuing more currency (making the currency worth less)
nope thats loanable funds, quantity theory of money bs from neoliberal books.
The interest rates for loans are set by those giving out the loans
The Central Bank sets the rate paid on Treasuries very indirectly. Treasury creates securities (Treasuries), sells it to Primary Dealers (banks), where do banks get the money to buy it? The Central Bank gives it to them. It’s why its said that mortgage rates are a markup over 10Y Treasury rate. CB will always be able to do Open Market Operation to keep short term yields stable, long term yields are bit more complicated but really, both are risk free. Corporations with AAA rating get to float bonds at a very small markup over Fed Funds rate.
Gov Bond issuance is obsolete really, with floating rate (no convertibility to gold), it becomes a free money asset for bondholders.
Where do these smaller countries get the money to run this manufacturing industry in the face of foreign multinational competition that gets big subsidies?
All countries with their own currencies create money the same way, by crediting bank accounts, taxes reverse the same. Spending creates income. Taxes reverse it.
You won’t get loans or your bonds bought at the same rate if people don’t believe you’ll be capable of paying them off. That’s the reason for the country credit ratings and why it’s so important to have a good rating.
If you just keep printing your money then nobody will trust in the value of your money, at least if you have nothing to back it up. And you’ll cause the consumer prices to soar. Not to mention you’re printing money to pay people producing stuff nobody is buying. You’ll economy will not just die but be murdered by you.
Just printing money and getting higher and higher interest loans to prop up an industry producing something nobody is buying is gonna ruin the small countries. A lot better uses for that money than that
Countries don’t have credit ratings in their own currency, for any sovereign currency issuer the rating on all debt is ‘sovereign’, not AAA or BBB, just ‘sovereign’. Foreign currency denominated debt can have credit ratings but that’s not what I am talking about. You will never find interest rate on Treasuries going too much beyond Fed Funds rate.
nobody will trust in the value of your money
Not how money works. It’s not trust it’s coercion. Multiple layers of it. You need it to pay for utilities, you need it to pay your taxes, you need it to get healthcare, education everything. Layers of debts.
Just printing money and getting higher and higher interest loans to prop up an industry producing something nobody is buying
Who said nobody is buying? The point of setting the price low is so its bought in a competitive market. There is no higher and higher interest loans for the sovereign, they pay the rate set by the Central Bank.
And you’ll cause the consumer prices to soar.
There is nothing of the sort going on, I am only saying the countries facing deindustrialization must prevent output and employment losses using fiscal policy. And that countries with own currencies can do so if they weren’t indoctrinated by neoliberal propaganda.
You think a country who is taking more and more loans with ever unlikelier chances of ultimately paying them off gets loans at the same terms as those that are trusted to pay them off?
It doesn’t matter if you feel the effect comes from trust or coercion, but if you keep priting money to pay for the wages like you’re suggesting then your money soon becomes worthless. And then your citizens are in trouble.
And like explained, small countries just can’t match the subsidies, not in the amount or the longevity. So even if they’re really aggressive about it, bigger economies USA, China, India that we mentioned, they can out-subsidise the small countries. So why exactly is anyone buying this domestic product if foreign products are just much cheaper?
It just seems like your plan for small countries being competetive relies on them being able to outspend the big economies with printing money and taking loans. And that… doesn’t sound great
There are no loans. All money you have came from the Government. what I’m suggesting ie the Government replacing lost spending with its own does NOT raise aggregate demand in any significant way, it’s a stabilizing policy.
Government deficit in this case keeps income of workers and employment unchanged relative to before.
It may be inflationary if the Govt decides to build new industries as that Increases aggregate demand. But keeping existing production doesn’t do that.
I think it was Abba Lerner who said that imports cause unemployment and output losses only if there is no full employment policy in place by the Government.
Where do you think the Government gets any money in general? You may say taxes. But where do people get the money to pay taxes? The Government itself.
That’s what I’m saying, spending creates income. Spending logically comes before taxation because if Gov doesn’t spend people won’t have money to pay taxes. The two sources of widely used money are
Government spending
Bank lending
Banks make their own money ie your deposits at bank convertible to Government money, to prevent bank runs, the Central Bank provides reserves on demand. By managing reserves, the interest rate is maintained at target set by the CB.
Many governments take out loans. But you are hoping for a circular economy to work where government pays for subsidies and wages, then they tax people and companies and make some of that back. But that money will run out. Not to mention people are going to be using that money for foreign products where parts of it flow outward and not back to government coffers.
No I am saying all money that exists comes from Government or Government authorised commercial banks.
Also economy is circular. Money goes round. Money is only deleted when you pay your debts whether tax debts or commercial bank debt.
Not to mention people are going to be using that money for foreign products where parts of it flow outward and not back to government coffers.
Nope. Money never goes out of the country. All money exists as electronic entries at banks or Central bank. When you exchange say Euro for Dollars, you are giving Euros to a bank who then gets the Euros and gives you Dollars from the market. The amount of Euros doesn’t change.
But yes imports are a drain on demand, which is exactly why any leakage from imports must be countered to prevent drop in output and employment.
This is why US Govt must run fiscal deficits to counter Trade Deficits given rest of the world’s desire to accumulate US dollar assets. Otherwise the local private sector will be indebted.
nope thats loanable funds, quantity theory of money bs from neoliberal books.
The Central Bank sets the rate paid on Treasuries very indirectly. Treasury creates securities (Treasuries), sells it to Primary Dealers (banks), where do banks get the money to buy it? The Central Bank gives it to them. It’s why its said that mortgage rates are a markup over 10Y Treasury rate. CB will always be able to do Open Market Operation to keep short term yields stable, long term yields are bit more complicated but really, both are risk free. Corporations with AAA rating get to float bonds at a very small markup over Fed Funds rate.
Gov Bond issuance is obsolete really, with floating rate (no convertibility to gold), it becomes a free money asset for bondholders.
All countries with their own currencies create money the same way, by crediting bank accounts, taxes reverse the same. Spending creates income. Taxes reverse it.
See
You won’t get loans or your bonds bought at the same rate if people don’t believe you’ll be capable of paying them off. That’s the reason for the country credit ratings and why it’s so important to have a good rating.
If you just keep printing your money then nobody will trust in the value of your money, at least if you have nothing to back it up. And you’ll cause the consumer prices to soar. Not to mention you’re printing money to pay people producing stuff nobody is buying. You’ll economy will not just die but be murdered by you.
Just printing money and getting higher and higher interest loans to prop up an industry producing something nobody is buying is gonna ruin the small countries. A lot better uses for that money than that
Countries don’t have credit ratings in their own currency, for any sovereign currency issuer the rating on all debt is ‘sovereign’, not AAA or BBB, just ‘sovereign’. Foreign currency denominated debt can have credit ratings but that’s not what I am talking about. You will never find interest rate on Treasuries going too much beyond Fed Funds rate.
Not how money works. It’s not trust it’s coercion. Multiple layers of it. You need it to pay for utilities, you need it to pay your taxes, you need it to get healthcare, education everything. Layers of debts.
Who said nobody is buying? The point of setting the price low is so its bought in a competitive market. There is no higher and higher interest loans for the sovereign, they pay the rate set by the Central Bank.
There is nothing of the sort going on, I am only saying the countries facing deindustrialization must prevent output and employment losses using fiscal policy. And that countries with own currencies can do so if they weren’t indoctrinated by neoliberal propaganda.
You think a country who is taking more and more loans with ever unlikelier chances of ultimately paying them off gets loans at the same terms as those that are trusted to pay them off?
It doesn’t matter if you feel the effect comes from trust or coercion, but if you keep priting money to pay for the wages like you’re suggesting then your money soon becomes worthless. And then your citizens are in trouble.
And like explained, small countries just can’t match the subsidies, not in the amount or the longevity. So even if they’re really aggressive about it, bigger economies USA, China, India that we mentioned, they can out-subsidise the small countries. So why exactly is anyone buying this domestic product if foreign products are just much cheaper?
It just seems like your plan for small countries being competetive relies on them being able to outspend the big economies with printing money and taking loans. And that… doesn’t sound great
There are no loans. All money you have came from the Government. what I’m suggesting ie the Government replacing lost spending with its own does NOT raise aggregate demand in any significant way, it’s a stabilizing policy.
Government deficit in this case keeps income of workers and employment unchanged relative to before.
It may be inflationary if the Govt decides to build new industries as that Increases aggregate demand. But keeping existing production doesn’t do that.
I think it was Abba Lerner who said that imports cause unemployment and output losses only if there is no full employment policy in place by the Government.
You can read the book I linked if you want to.
Where does the government get the money to pay the workers and the subsidies?
Where do you think the Government gets any money in general? You may say taxes. But where do people get the money to pay taxes? The Government itself.
That’s what I’m saying, spending creates income. Spending logically comes before taxation because if Gov doesn’t spend people won’t have money to pay taxes. The two sources of widely used money are
Government spending
Bank lending
Banks make their own money ie your deposits at bank convertible to Government money, to prevent bank runs, the Central Bank provides reserves on demand. By managing reserves, the interest rate is maintained at target set by the CB.
Many governments take out loans. But you are hoping for a circular economy to work where government pays for subsidies and wages, then they tax people and companies and make some of that back. But that money will run out. Not to mention people are going to be using that money for foreign products where parts of it flow outward and not back to government coffers.
No I am saying all money that exists comes from Government or Government authorised commercial banks.
Also economy is circular. Money goes round. Money is only deleted when you pay your debts whether tax debts or commercial bank debt.
Nope. Money never goes out of the country. All money exists as electronic entries at banks or Central bank. When you exchange say Euro for Dollars, you are giving Euros to a bank who then gets the Euros and gives you Dollars from the market. The amount of Euros doesn’t change.
But yes imports are a drain on demand, which is exactly why any leakage from imports must be countered to prevent drop in output and employment.
This is why US Govt must run fiscal deficits to counter Trade Deficits given rest of the world’s desire to accumulate US dollar assets. Otherwise the local private sector will be indebted.