I’ve been lecturing (technically tutoring) someone recently on economy for economy classes. So far it’s been easy. But we often get sucked into the topic of price haggling. It always goes the same.
She asks something like “why does what people say affect a price? You either value something to the extent you value it or you don’t. It seems dishonest.”
Usually my response to that is to first mention how, if all prices were fixed, money wouldn’t go anywhere. If everyone just sold pizzas, and everyone sold them at the same price, everyone would live and die with the same amount of value in their possession. I also compare it to a captcha and say it’s like tipping them for their human-to-human time.
That’s a good point I think. Anyone in our same recurring conversation should start there. I bring up the small details and allow the ideas to converge. Especially the ones she knows.
However, I must admit, that’s where my ability to explain it ends.
She then asks something like “how do you haggle then? What kind of talking is considered haggling and then at what point does it just become price bickering?” And in my mind, as I try to define it for her, I think to myself “forgive her, she’s on the spectrum.”
I’m not like her. I like to price haggle freely and think price haggling should be protected by law in the same way religion is protected by Freedom of Religion laws. If someone comes into a pharmacy and wants to haggle, in my perfect world, it would be enforced by the authorities. Perhaps you can tell me in your answer to this if you think this is a good idea (please).
How immersed are you in the practice? Immersed enough you’ve taken a long time doing it before (how long) or do it frequently? A lot of the people here have passionate views on the economy; how do you square the practice of price haggling with your views? Is it considered “good” in your viewpoint?
I dislike haggling immensely.
Here in Australia it’s very unusual outside of specific transactions like buying a car, or buying a second hand item on facebook marketplace or something. Even in these examples it’s becoming less popular - a lot of car dealers just say they don’t negotiate on price.
I don’t really follow your pizza example - who ever produces value gets the money.
Haggling disadvantages minorities or anyone who isn’t on equal social footing with the vendor. If you have any intellectual disability, or language barrier, or even if you just don’t want to talk to anyone on a given day, you’ll end up paying more for your purchase.
You don’t seem to have offered any benefits to haggling.
I mostly refuse to haggle, if a seller attempts to initiate it I simply leave the store unless it’s literally my last chance to buy some essential item.
It might not be the coolest or best attitude towards haggling, but I have no desire to participate in it. If the price looks good and I need it I buy it, if not too bad.
Yeah came to say something like this. Even in something where price negotiation is a thing, like house offers, I will walk if the person does not offer something reasonableI.
Absolutely despise it. I’m with her. I run a business that is mostly selling my time/expertise. If they don’t value that to the extent I do, they can kick rocks.
I dislike haggling for the simple fact that if even a large minority of people did it, every trip to buy something would take forever. For p2p stuff, sure. But as soon as there’s any sort of POS system involved, it’s just inconveniencing everyone.
I also have mad social anxiety, so the less I can talk during a transaction, the better.
Utterly despise it but I also am antagonistic to monetary based economics in general, so to say I am biased is an understatement.
I never haggle.
Haggling always feels incredibly confrontational and disrespectful to me. Watching others do it makes me annnngry. Usually because I’m wanting to pay and leave, like 99% of the others in line behind them.
If someone is trying to scalp me for a few bucks on some used tech I’m selling online, it’s even more pointless, as the web is full of used stuff. Why force me to get dressed and meet you somewhere if you aren’t even interested in honoring the price I’m asking?! I’m typically more inclined to walk away or drastically increase the price at that point, because it feels like the buyer isn’t respecting my time, just fucking with me. Why not reciprocate in kind at that point?
As others have pointed out, it’s also very time-consuming: personally I’d rather pay what’s on the sticker and move on. Wasting energy on mere cents or dollars is never worth my time.
I don’t understand how “enforcing” the right to haggle would even work, other than generally support a free market. Right now, you absolutely can go into a pharmacy and haggle. They’ll most likely be firm on their price and you’ll have wasted your time and theirs (and the time of anyone behind you).
if all parties involved are open to haggle then they should be free to do so
I don’t know what you imagine under protecting the right to haggle and have it be enforced by authority.
If haggling is not already restricted by authoritys everyone could haggle with others who are open to it already, which is why i don’t think that it is of any use to have it protected by law.
I don’t like the practise myself because it gives many neurodivergent as well as people who are on lower ends of the social hirachie disadvantagesTo me haggling isn’t about value, its a conflict between two conflicting interests. One side wants to make as much of a profit as possible, and the other wants to spend as little as possible. Haggling is at worst manipulation and exploitation as both sides are trying to scam the other (and its heavily favors the seller), and at best its two people finding a compromise on a price both are willing to agree on.
Value is a subjective thing, it is different from person to person, thing to thing, and even time. Its part of why I’m an anarcho-communist, and to me that is relevant as you are asking this in an anarchist community. I believe an economy should be built around need, not value. Resources should go to those that need it, and I trust people to decide what they need themselves. Production should be geared towards meeting people’s needs, not about making the most profit.
Haggling fails to accomplish either this as it is purely about value. It is a competition between two different people’s perception of an objects value, and a competition that is basically rigged in the favor of the seller. I say this because the seller does not need the product, that is why they are selling it, and they can simply say no.
To emphasize this, lets run through a hypothetical. You are a baker selling your goods at a market and a buyer approaches wanting to buy a loaf of bread. [We are going to simplify the costs and such of being a baker for the sake of simplicity]. It cost you $1 for the ingredients to make that one loaf of bread. But you cant simply sell the loaf for a $1, you put work into making that so now we gotta factor in the value of the labor. Lets say you think the value of the labor for that one loaf of bread was $5 in your own opinion (cause value is subjective). So to you the value of the loaf of bread is $6. But you dont simply want to make ends meet, you want to make money.
You offer to sell the loaf of bread for $10. The buyer is a poor starving old man with very little money. You two haggle and you come to find he only has $6. You have three choices, sell it to him for the value you feel its really worth which would be all of the man’s money, you could sell it for less (if you sold it for $2 you would make double the costs of the resources to make it, even $1 would break even), or you could refuse to sell it to him and wait for a more profitable customer. What choices does the buyer have? None, if you decided you won’t drop to $6. If you drop to $6 or below he still has no choice, its pay or die of starvation.
Of course this is an overly simple hypothetical, but I feel it gets my point across.
How I haggle:
item doesn’t scan
Me: “Huh, I guess that means it’s free 🤷♂️”
“why does what people say affect a price? You either value something to the extent you value it or you don’t. It seems dishonest.”
There are other kinds of values being exchanged besides just an item and money when you are haggling. e.g. time. You’re not just offering less money for the item – which would not be appealing to the seller at all – but less money right now instead of the uncertain(!) possibility of getting the higher asking price later. That can be very appealing in some sales situations…
Haggling is discrimination against us on spectrum. Money are thing of consensus, last straw of our polarized society. It takes way more effort for me to haggle than for you, so if I have to haggle with you, my value goes up a lot immediately.
See? It’s a language game you are trying to define. You normies are silly, there is no definition for those. We, however, could hyperfocus on this and beat the shit out of you, so you’d better stop trying and accept my offer now before it is too late. Or just fund my work unconditionally, it’s the best use of money around anyway.
I find haggling despicable, if someone is trying to get more than time/effort+value cost just because they can/are bored/find it fun. If it’s between people actually disagreeing on the value, there’s reason for discussion but more often it’s just a bullshit tactic
it depends entirely on the circumstances. personally i don’t do it at all but i recognise that there are environments from boot sales to business deals where it is appropriate and expected.
my aversion to it came about when i worked for a little while in a charity shop (many years ago) where donations were taken in, priced up, displayed, and sold by volunteers. they were priced very cheaply and still some customers would try to argue the volunteers down. there were also shoplifters who left the changing cubicle much fatter than when they entered, and i had more respect for the shoplifters than i did for those haggling customers
edit to address some of your points directly
at what point does it just become price bickering
it’s usually the same thing
if someone wants to haggle at a pharmacy
you may ask for the overpriced brand in the flashy packaging or you may enquire if a generic version is available. this is not haggling. if you ask for a reduced price on either the pharmacist is entitled to tell you where to go
how do you square the practice of price haggling with your views
in a fair society it wouldn’t be required for necessities. for luxuries it could be considered a fair way for a supplier and receiver to reach a mutually satisfactory deal. as it stands, see above, i don’t like it but it’s sometimes ok
I haggle. Sadly, it’s a form of promising to use your market power (no matter whether tiny or big) in a way favourable to the partner. Markets are irrational things and market power is a real thing - you can make markets work nicer for others, usually requesting something nice for yourself.
E.g. “if you can sell me X for 4 € / km, I promise that I buy 500 km / month, otherwise thank you, but I only need a sample”. The buyer makes a conditional promise to favour the seller if the seller can maintain the requested price level.
Another example: “I agree to buy this sofa at once and pay in cash, but please drop the price to 100 €”. The buyer offers to not waste the seller’s time (time is valuable) and to avoid any contact with tax officials, in return for a more favourable price.
As for whether it’s good or bad - I think that over long timescales, it’s bad. If there exists a market, one should strive for it to be transparent and equal, free of covert influence. Haggling is a form of applying such influence. So if I would be designing a trading system, I would try to go against what I personally do. I would try to avoid the need for haggling and discourage it.
