As I said, the vegan movement proves that individual boycotts are effective. Apart from that, you lose insight if you talk the talk without walking the walk. You must live the lifestyle to gain the insights on what needs to change and what to demand. Otherwise it’s like trying to fight in the dark from the outside. Like trying to fight for change in a country where you have never lived.
If you don’t actually boycott Cloudflare (for example), you have no idea the full extent of the damage it does. The superficial view of CF without experiencing life without CF does not equip you to know where the battleground is or what it looks like. You are working blind.
What are you calling effective? You have an increasing population. You have a rise of meat-eating car-driving right-wing nutters voting fascists into power. What do you expect? The fact that we can walk into a restaurant and ask for a vegan menu proves positive effect occured. The fact that even prisoners can specify that they are vegan and get a vegan meal while incarcerated shows it was effective.
To be clear, “effective” does not mean “mission complete”. Abolition of slavery was very effective. That does not mean slavery is entirely eradicated. The fight against slavery will likely continue throughout our lifetime.
(edit) I suspect if you find a chart for the numbers of vegans, that will also be increasing.
this reads like cope. make any excuse you want, but if you want to save animals from the livestock industry, you’re going to need to choose an effective method.
There is no single magic bullet. An effective method is not a singular tactic or event against a complex problem. You need many effective methods and campaigns, one of which is vegans doing their individual boycott. Slavery reduced over many generations. It cannot even be solved in a single generation. As Rutger Bregman states, it often takes one generation just to work on awareness and influence before the execution of actions. Only 1 of major initiating actors in abolition of slavery lived to actually see it fall. IIRC, it was the same for the suffragettes. Only one of the key players in the fight for women’s rights lived to see the day when a notable stride was made.
The central analogy to the civil rights movement and the women’s movement is trivializing and ahistorical. Both of those social movements were initiated and driven by members of the dispossessed and excluded groups themselves, not by benevolent men or white people acting on their behalf. Both movements were built precisely around the idea of reclaiming and reasserting a shared humanity in the face of a society that had deprived it and denied it. No civil rights activist or feminist ever argued, “We’re sentient beings too!” They argued, “We’re fully human too!” Animal liberation doctrine, far from extending this humanist impulse, directly undermines it.
Both of those social movements were initiated and driven by members of the dispossessed and excluded groups themselves, not by benevolent men or white people acting on their behalf.
so you should try to think about your methods and whether they’re effective. if you wouldn’t just hold your breath, it’s probably because you’re smart enough to recognize there is no causal link between your respiratory function and the animal agriculture industry. the same is true of your shopping habits.
if it were an effective method, i could agree. if it’s not effective, then it’s not a good use of our effort.
As I said, the vegan movement proves that individual boycotts are effective. Apart from that, you lose insight if you talk the talk without walking the walk. You must live the lifestyle to gain the insights on what needs to change and what to demand. Otherwise it’s like trying to fight in the dark from the outside. Like trying to fight for change in a country where you have never lived.
If you don’t actually boycott Cloudflare (for example), you have no idea the full extent of the damage it does. The superficial view of CF without experiencing life without CF does not equip you to know where the battleground is or what it looks like. You are working blind.
saying something doesn’t make it true.
What are you calling effective? You have an increasing population. You have a rise of meat-eating car-driving right-wing nutters voting fascists into power. What do you expect? The fact that we can walk into a restaurant and ask for a vegan menu proves positive effect occured. The fact that even prisoners can specify that they are vegan and get a vegan meal while incarcerated shows it was effective.
To be clear, “effective” does not mean “mission complete”. Abolition of slavery was very effective. That does not mean slavery is entirely eradicated. The fight against slavery will likely continue throughout our lifetime.
(edit) I suspect if you find a chart for the numbers of vegans, that will also be increasing.
this reads like cope. make any excuse you want, but if you want to save animals from the livestock industry, you’re going to need to choose an effective method.
There is no single magic bullet. An effective method is not a singular tactic or event against a complex problem. You need many effective methods and campaigns, one of which is vegans doing their individual boycott. Slavery reduced over many generations. It cannot even be solved in a single generation. As Rutger Bregman states, it often takes one generation just to work on awareness and influence before the execution of actions. Only 1 of major initiating actors in abolition of slavery lived to actually see it fall. IIRC, it was the same for the suffragettes. Only one of the key players in the fight for women’s rights lived to see the day when a notable stride was made.
there are more slaves now than ever.
That counters Rutger Bregman’s research. Citation needed.
well estimates vary, but as recently as 2009, one estimate was over 29 million people. i’d love to see bregman’s research if you can provide it.
The central analogy to the civil rights movement and the women’s movement is trivializing and ahistorical. Both of those social movements were initiated and driven by members of the dispossessed and excluded groups themselves, not by benevolent men or white people acting on their behalf. Both movements were built precisely around the idea of reclaiming and reasserting a shared humanity in the face of a society that had deprived it and denied it. No civil rights activist or feminist ever argued, “We’re sentient beings too!” They argued, “We’re fully human too!” Animal liberation doctrine, far from extending this humanist impulse, directly undermines it.
Nonsense w.r.t to abolition of slavery. The most significant work was done by white outsiders. Source: https://www.bbc.com/audio/brand/m002mqm3
if i told you holding your breath was helpful, i doubt you would even try that before focusing on more effective methods.
And?
so you should try to think about your methods and whether they’re effective. if you wouldn’t just hold your breath, it’s probably because you’re smart enough to recognize there is no causal link between your respiratory function and the animal agriculture industry. the same is true of your shopping habits.