I kind of like the karma thing on redddit, it should be available to everyone perhaps. I guess there are upsides to not having karma too, but it is a clue to help spot some troll accounts, and influence agents, bots, etc. You see patterns in their profiles when you id one and check their profiles. They are rife across social media.
Pretty incredible crashout from people who are terrified that their pro-genocide devs might not exercise complete control anymore, lmao
My favorite is all these twats before saying “IF YOU DON’T LIKE LEMMY CREATE AN ALTERNATIVE” when people pointed out that the Lemmy devs were pro-genocide and enforced pro-genocide views on their flagship instance, and now that there’s an alternative, they have total meltdowns about persecution, lmao.
But no one ever said fascist bootlickers were particularly bright, or, for that matter, stable. If they were, one imagines they wouldn’t tie up their identity so tightly with genocide denial.
Which instances are pro genocide? I take it chinese? I think someone told me some of the communist ones that back russia and china were original developers of lemmy. I haven’t seen any pro israeli instances yet, although I’ve seen a few fascist bootlickers, influence agents, bots, or should I just call the latter two mechanized troll divisions.
.ml, lemmygrad, and Hexbear all enforce standards of atrocity apologia and denial.
Hexbear was the one ran afoul of but I’ve heard of the others, have had conversations on .ml without issue, idk lemmygrad. They really like the china and russia kind of countries I guess, and it seems like a top down sort of operation with a chain of command rather than a collective of like minded people. Perhaps a long palsied arm of russian intelligence.
It is a bit ironic though, that they are all rather “woke,” and purportedly far left, while holding up as models countries that are fascist and authoritarian and could only be classified as hard right, dictatorships. Neither Russia nor China exemplifies the wokeness so to speak they wield, and in fact helped coin through their proxies that definition. In fact either would probably imprison anyone loudly espousing their ethos in those countries in a work camp.
Hexbear was the one ran afoul of but I’ve heard of the others, have had conversations on .ml without issue, idk lemmygrad.
FYI all those instances are mostly the same people, just with different masks. .ml is the one where they’re at least trying to look reasonable. Grad is mask off. Hexbear is used for trolling.
Whom are these people do we have any idea? The reasonable ones I talked to during the big troll on my original offense explained they weren’t super politically correct westerners for communists mostly outside the US if not the west altogether. That’s all I know, but I know some are in the UK and US and Spain at a minimum.
They just don’t like that they can’t control the narrative on Piefed and that Lemmy’s developers are so busy banning people for dissent that they don’t spend enough time developing their platform, leading to Piefed surpassing it in features and quality.
They are rather intolerant of dissenting opinions, even ones that agree in principle with them but take issue with their direction in what to do about the problem.
Quite the package. I‘d be interested which fascists you are talking about, how they are being bootlicked and for which genocide these people are. You‘re just throwing mud, bring some substance, so I can learn something or at least have a laugh at you.
lmao, you’re the same Uyghur genocide denier that came here last time. Didn’t you call this place a Nazi bar? What are you doing hanging out in a place where you (delusionally) think Nazis gather?
I guess you’re really desperate to sit at a table with fellow genocide deniers, but unfortunately for you, you’ll not find your kind here. Try back on .ml.
Wow, straight to the genocide denier defamation, you‘re a real and absolutely unhinged class act.
I stand by my classification of this place as a Nazi bar. Just the other day your bartender colleague goat showed their racism, when confronted with their dumb perspectives on the (actual) Gaza genocide. This only adds to the pile for this community, which consists of hate speech (dehumanizing, ableism, othering), racism, genocide denial, propaganda, bad faith engagement.
I‘m just here to confront you with your bullshittery. Show onlookers and passerbys what this place is. And by not doing much at all, automatically tanking my holy social credit score.
Kind of funny, how you wonder what I‘m doing here, when you and your ilk are the ones actually stalking other communities in order to screenshot them, willfully misinterpret them, laugh at them. At least I am actually here, not cowardly gossiping about your ignorant takes in other communities.
What a sad collection of individuals you are. I wonder who‘s actually living in whose head.
Now, back to your deranged mud-slinging into the void:
So the „pro-genocide“ refers to the Uyghurs, as you‘ve now made clear with your outright defamation. And you are angry, because there are people that actually read and look through the evidence (which is more than you ever did) and determine that it‘s not a genocide, bring the receipts for it and also find that it‘s highly suspicious, that every information on this falls back on this Adrian Zenz character, some western three-letter-agency reports and really nothing else.
And you really wish that people would pay more attention to this, because you care so deeply about muslim minorities, right? Right?
Let’s move on.
Who are the fascists, tho? What‘s the bootlicking? Just trying to understand your weird takes.
The Chinese have enslaved their entire factory working population in effect, forcing hundreds of millions of small holders off their farms and into the cities, where they don’t have residency, and are illegals, to work at factories on 6-12’s, 6 days a week, 12 hours a day, for starvation wages. If they complain they can be jailed, beaten up, thrown out of town on a word from their employer.
I know what you are going to say, China outlawed 6-12’s, but employers still make them work them and just pay them for the official hours. They have no benefits, no protection, no safety net. They sold out generations of their citizens to destitute poverty to garner western technology, and use the greed of wall street et al to build their factories for them in the process. All for investors to in effect arbitrage factory work, undercutting labor and environmental standards in a race to the bottom, building cheap, in foreign currencies, selling high in western currencies.
Their abuses of their citizens go well beyond the horrific way they’ve treated their restive minority populations.
I stand by my classification of this place as a Nazi bar.
Walk into a bar
“Wow, this is a total nazi bar, everyone in here is associating with nazis!”
Sits down, orders beer, starts talking to people
I got them tagged as “calls everyone nazi type of tankie” from earlier. Looks I chose accurately.
I got into it at chapotraphouse, not realizing what they were, thinking they were just super politically correct westerners. A couple decent ones told me, two score trolling messages deep after I offended their “eastern governments,” as not an aspirational model for the west. But the few I made nice with that explained to me they were communists living outside the US didn’t stop the rest. I quit responding after a bit, being flooded by multiple attacks. But they would follow me onto other threads and troll me, still do occasionally months later. When returning to their instance to make a few marginally popular comments, one responded with a link to the offending comment from months prior too, and sparked another wave of brigading. Meaning they somehow had my account flagged, and they likely have sort of enforcers as I gather. (edited for clarity.)
Plus I’m pretty sure some have accounts on other instances that they’ve came and trolled me with, one for sure I’ve got pegged, made right after the incident and not having many other comments that keeps popping up in other instances for the troll, one calling me a troll and telling everyone to block me and move on for instance, on a marginally downvoted comment I made arguing about the direction of the resistance. (edited for clarity.)
Talking to others about the defederation, which I was against moreso before talking and learning more about it, they are rather known for that. Making burner accounts and trolling people, and have chased off a lot of new users that wander onto their instance as I did. I think other tools should be used than defederation still, like a warning, having to opt in to even not have them blocked, which I’ve been told piefed has the tools to do.
I might make a piefed account as well here at some point after researching which one, the lemmy I’m on is great though just lacking in some functionality aspects like context, I can’t respond to comments not directed to me on that chain of comments from there but would have to find it in all comments under my instances view for instance as context takes me to the other instance’s page. But I hear there are extensions I’m supposed to be using so I need to try that.
I stand by my classification of this place as a Nazi bar.
if you really feel that way why the fuck did you come back, if we’re not ‘your kind of nazis’
what a strange self own.
Wow, straight to the genocide denier defamation,
So the „pro-genocide“ refers to the Uyghurs, as you‘ve now made clear with your outright defamation. And you are angry, because there are people that actually read and look through the evidence (which is more than you ever did) and determine that it‘s not a genocide, bring the receipts for it and also find that it‘s highly suspicious, that every information on this falls back on this Adrian Zenz character, some western three-letter-agency reports and really nothing else.
I can’t believe I would defame you with something you admit in the very same comment, how inaccurate of me.
Fascist bootlickers really just can’t help yourselves, can you?
Ya, so easy to dismiss anything like that, real good faith commentary.
See, that would be a useful answer, if I actually stated, that I agreed with this stuff. But I want to know from you, PugJesus, if you read the evidence and actually disagree with it and if so, why?
And now you just call me a fascist bootlicker, how ridiculous are you?
Answer my questions, I‘ll repeat them:
Who are the fascists? What‘s the bootlicking?
See, that would be a useful answer, if I actually stated, that I agreed with this stuff.
lmao
Coward.
im curious, nazi, can you tell me what my perspective was?
-415 reputation
aaaand that’s why Piefed has a reputation flag.
So I can’t see that. Is that information only available to mods? Does it just count the numbers on this instance and not all instances?
I was told there is a attitude number too, showing rank of upvoting and downvoting. I think it might be good to have the information available to everyone, to suss out the motivations of commenters, to help differentiate between people that honestly disagree and influence agents, bots, chatbots, etc. Which are rife on all social media now it seems, including lemmy to a lesser degree it appears though not sure as to the extent. Reddit, facebook, twatter, et al are overrun, especially the latter two.
Attitude is public (I can see yours at 88%, I’m currently sitting at 90%).
Reputation is not (though not sure to what degree - is anything on the fediverse not public?), I think it’s visible to moderators and/or instance owners. Everyone can see if you’re a total dickwad though:
Oh thanks for the response, my instance does not seem to give me that information unfortunately, although those icons do seem familiar I just checked the page on my instance and I’ve no such attitude checker icon, neither on the comment nor their profile, running through context, which follows under the host instance’s site, I see nothing either.
I guess that is a reason to start looking at other instances on lemmy or piefed for a second account and or write my instance and ask for that although I hate to demand they work more for free I appreciate the work they’ve done already.
I think lemmy.today is lemmy, not piefed. Attitude and reputation are piefed features.
Oh I see yes sorry I should’ve realized that was just a piefed feature not sure how other instances work though I am relatively knew here from reddit which I hate and distrust the administration of even as there are a lot of great people on there.
Seems like a very doable add on for lemmy though, if even one wrote some base code change for it other developers of other instances of lemmy could add it in with minimal effort I would think, although I know little of developing internet sites admittedly. I don’t see why one would not want that information added.
Is that my social credit score?
And why now does Piefed have such a thing? So divergent, critical accounts get marked and the well behaved good citizens, like you, get to know exactly, who the troublemakers are, priming them before they even engage? Gotta make sure everyone is on their best behaviour and nobody starts making a fuss.
Pick up that can,
gullible foolcitizen.it must be strange tasting your own medicine.
How is any of this my own medicine? You‘re in a literal Nazi Bar, get out of it.
You‘re just throwing mud, bring some substance, so I can learn something or at least have a laugh at you.
It’s always morally correct to laugh at Pugjesus - you don’t need to wait for a reason.
True praxis is you lot all letting me live 24/7 in your heads rent-free, comrade, thank you 🙏
You really aren’t that subtle, sweetheart. :)
Removed by mod
i didn’t remove this comment or ban you
probably automod
You permaban accounts by automod? Reddit’s automod is corrupted. For Israel, and to protect other powerful figures. If you get into it with connected influence agents on certain subjects, even without breaking the rules, they find an unrelated conversation to take issue with, not bothering to find a plausible one that’s against the rules.
Lately the comment you get violated for is not even shown to you either, they remove it and their link to the offending comment shows nothing. In appealing and pointing that out they just confirm the violation without addressing that you aren’t shown the offending comment, and confirm bad faith violations that no reasonable person would think is promoting violence or other such ad hoc accusation.
We have no rights online in the US so they don’t have to try and make it believable, let alone wait and find a plausible violation.
Idk if permabans by automod are therefore proper. The more popular the fediverse gets, the more the powerful will get their hooks into it. Unjust enforcements will prevent federated social media from getting the critical mass to unseat the silicon valley parasites that government and monied interests have their hooks into as the only games in world.
I think those actions should have appeals, leading to jury trials of users online. It would install trust in the system, in a time when trust is fast eroding from everywhere as the rot in society has spread into plain view.
With the right systems, the new federated social media, including new ones to fill other needs, interoperable with lemmy and piefed and mastadon, peertube, et al, and the like, could be the key to organizing, to working people cooperating on what they agree on, and in the fullness of time, to making political machines that can break the oligarchies’ death grip on our politics, and restore our liberal democracies to their relative glory in the post war years, before the 1971 Business Roundtable made a long game for big business to cooperate on what they agree on, like crushing liberal democracy, and creating a monster they arrogantly think they can control after it achieves absolute power, something they are well on their way towards, not just in the US either.
I have no control over automod and it exists because this community regularly gets spambots and other spammers. We’d all prefer not to have automod, but there’s not much we can do about it since the spammers refuse to stop.
lmao
Keep it up, sweetheart. :)
Oh yeah that was the post that made me block their meme community 🤣
Imagine unironically posting these comments in communities that notoriously ban people for wrong-think.
Shit like this really makes me question if they can genuinely be this stupid.
i’d like to tout that this community rarely bans users and has one of the fairest and most lenient ban conditions. we encourage tankies to come and engage
but tankies like to say they get banned for ‘wrongthink’ since it’s easier to lie than admit you can’t handle people criticising your otherwise asinine positions.
They are in denial
I read about most of the shit the tankies on ml say it’s censorship. Many of them are just common sense stuff. And the fact that you are flagged for commenting “this” or that you’re commenting with a GIF from Tenor - those two things are pretty low effort and I think the answer to it is a proper one (no, it’s not actually a thing about GIFs, it’s about low effort comments. You can upload your own GIF elsewhere and use it).
Also, it’s funny how they have nothing against China using a social credit system, but when Piefed uses it IT’S HELL ON EARTH!!!
“China doesn’t have a social credit system, and if they did it would be based; but these WESTOID KRAKKKER IMPERIALISTS are operating a SECRET POLICE by having admin access to reputation scores for an online forum 😭”
Have admins able to access to all your data on that server - ✅ OK
Have admins able to see a reliable score of all your nonsense without beating their heads around with eating your shit - ❌ THIS IS LITERALLY THOUGHT POLICE; THEY’LL SEND AGENTS TO YOUR DOOR IF YOU POST A GIF FROM TENOR AND THEY’LL TAKE YOU TO THE (NONEXISTING) GULAGS OR SOME SHIT. HEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEELP!!!
USAID which is a CIA cutout
This claim is literally standing shoulder to shoulder with known Hitler-worshipper Elon Musk’s attacks on USAID last year. The only group that can out-conspiracy theory Hexbear and Grad is Qanon at this point.
I am sure that’s true the account you replied to is in bad faith here, but the CIA has used all sorts of do gooder organizations however. We notably impersonated vaccination workers to find Osama, and made those already put upon humanitarian missions more at risk and saw increases in their killings and attacks, especially in places like pakistan that still see polio and other vaccinateable disease.
Then there was an international student democracy group back in the 80s, they recruited all of these idealists, including in Iraq, after the Islamic revolution in Iran, and the whole thing was a cia front, and they used that group to garner tens of thousands of names they gave to the baath party when they were seizing and consolidating power, in two tranches, and those people were grabbed, disappeared, tortured, murdered. I can give you a link on that if you want, harper’s magazine.
Those are just to name a couple, just to make the point that there very well could, almost certainly is, some cia fuckery with this usaid organization. Using their own pervertion of the agencies and organizations to shut down chartiy work however is just more rw degeneration of society obviously I am not in disagreement rather pointing out there almost certainly has been cia skullduggery at that organization.
It’s very curious how all extremists end up with the same talking points and views. The antisemitism from tankies is almost identical to neo-nazis, even posting and sharing the same conspiracy theories.
If I were a bot farm operator, that’s exactly what I would do. Right-wing authoritarian talking points branded with “Leftist” packaging.
Yeah, most likely it’s Russian disinformation at some level in the pipeline of extremism
Gonna have to disagree with you on this one.
Much though one might criticize the lemmy devs for their politics, at least they keep it to their instance. They don’t bake it into the software.
And that’s very much as opposed to rimu, whose opinions are at the heart of Piefed and forced into virtually everything the software does from the moment you sign up for a piefed instance, from the preset subscriptions to the reputation tags and default hiding of downvoted content to the list of prohibited sources and banned domains.
All you have to do to avoid Dessalines and Nutonic’s opinions is to avoid their instance and federated ones. But it’s impossible to use Piefed and avoid rimu’s opinions, because they’re baked into the software.
And that’s very much as opposed to rimu, whose opinions are at the heart of Piefed and forced into virtually everything the software does from the moment you sign up for a piefed instance…
All you have to do to avoid Dessalines and Nutonic’s opinions is to avoid their instance and federated ones. But it’s impossible to use Piefed and avoid rimu’s opinions, because they’re baked into the software.
This has been refuted time and time again by people literally running Piefed instances.
No, it in fact hasn’t. If anything, it’s been verified by them, because they generally start off by admitting that everything I said is true. It’s just that they then go on to say that it somehow doesn’t count because it’s possible to opt out of those anti-features.
Which misses both the point that the anti-features do exist (as opposed to Lemmy) and do exist because rimu stuck them in there, and that most of the reason it’s possible to opt out of them is because other people - notably wjs018 - added that functionality.
No, it in fact hasn’t. If anything, it’s been verified by them, because they generally start off by admitting that everything I said is true. It’s just that they then go on to say that it somehow doesn’t count because it’s possible to opt out of those anti-features.
Jesus fucking Christ.
“It’s an admin option” /=/ " forced into virtually everything the software does from the moment you sign up for a piefed instance…" or “baked into the software.”
This part is thought-provoking.
This person would be really upset if they knew Lemmy.zip blocks hexbear and grad by default in the user settings.
Those anti-features don’t exist in Lemmy
Wait, which platform was it again that used to have a hard-coded slur list that could not be modified by instance admins but only by modifying the relevant section of code, and had the main dev throw a temper tantrum when people suggested otherwise? I forgot…
That thread is a mess only good point that was made is that the spoiler effect is baked into first-past-the-post to minimize democracy. The elites want us stuck with only 2 choices on the ballot.
More people need to educate themselves on electoral systems since those in power want us to accept an inferior system till the end of time. But that’s too much thinking for Tankies, gotta burn down society for the accelerationism bs that just gets people killed and progress stalled for ages.
Yeah, FPTP has to go. At least a few of our problems will leave entirely with that shitty and outdated form of voting rule, even if most problems remain.
Is the “globally tracks your score” part true? That would be a huge negative for me. I found myself self-censoring on Reddit, and I hated it when people deleted or edit their comments to preserve their karma.
The whole comment section is pretty interesting, they go into the code, I debated piefed features, as stated by Rimu, with… I think an admin? Not sure. There’s another link to a comment string about piefed updates here: https://lemmy.world/comment/21179968
It was generally informative.
Is the “globally tracks your score” part true?
As I understand it, it lets the instance admin display if it drops below a certain level, as a suggestion a user needs a deeper look.
I don’t think users can see the actual number/karma equivalent by any means.
Interesting, I’m not sure how I feel about it. On Reddit it encouraged people to post groupthink fluff so they could be allowed onto their desired subreddit. The bots were great at that, and we got a “dead internet” website.
I suppose we’ve got other stuff going for us like bans being local and bots being scorned. And I have to admit that mod/admin effort isn’t free. Do you think the low karma warnings could potentially be a slippery slope to something worse?
It’s understandable to feel that way, but imo this is about basic internet etiquette rather than censorship. If I went to .ml and wrote a few sensible comments there I would quickly get a bad rep. It’s not perfect but it’s a far cry from censorship as well.
Doesn‘t matter what it‘s supposed to be, the relevant factor is what it does in reality.
i agree, there shouldn’t be any upvotes, downvotes or reputation system at all.
I mean if we had piefed without a karma/reputation system we would get a true level playing field, reduced performative posting, more raw feedback and less censoring.
but on the other hand there would be too much noise, spam and bot flooding (since no reputation/karma), lack of trust and accountability.
Xitter for example has no rep system yet people still find a way to judge the quality of a post using the Ratio method (likes vs comments)
I like the principle of reddit and piefed expands on that and tries to come in with “common sense tools”
I think it’s really up to you to decide what is important.
Do you want a place for raw, unfiltered, diverse and equal expression? (à la Twitter) which comes with its set of negatives. Or a place that is organized, high-quality and “trustworthy” and its own set of negatives
I personnaly prefer an organized place but that’s just my opinion.
Edit: should have used Mastodon as an example instead of Twitter
Reddit records positive karma though, which is different.
Also Reddit or Reddit communities (not sure) can literally throttle the activity of users who are heavily downvoted within a specific subreddit. Some subs also instant block anyone with -100 Karma. Unfortunately though, when you do encounter an account like that… it’s very obviously why they are like that. People can get unfairly hit by arguing in the wrong communities but 9 times out of 10, a -100 karma account (it caps at that on Reddit) has been trolling, looking for fights, spamming etc.
I suppose it would depend on where the score limit is. Any admin tool can be abused by a sufficiently determined admin, of course, but I think as long as the low-reputation limit is something along the lines of “This person is consistently averaging a distinctly negative score”, it’s probably fine. You’d really have to be overwhelmingly commenting on controversial issues with nothing but controversial takes in order to average that with good faith posting.
Mostly it’s the “MY BIG NUMBER” attitude that I think should be avoided, and since users can’t see their reputation, that’s probably not going to be a problem.
My reputation is so low, because I critically engage in this community from time to time and people don‘t like it.
calling random people nazis and fascists for not liking tankies isn’t critical engagement
Using Ukraine to overexploit their resources and as a battleground to weaken Russia. Using Venezuela to overexploit their resources and to weaken resource-access for China. Using Israel as an unsinkable aircraft carrier in West Asia towards China. Using Taiwan as an unsinkable aircraft carrier in South-East Asia directly off the coast of China.
this the critical thinking you talk about?
Or do you mean critically engage against people’s opinion even when yours seems to be the same line of thinking the tankie employ? Because you give the vibe that the only country you adore and care about is Russia and China, to which the system used by piefed is really useful for people to not engage any of your comment.
I’m critically engaging and pugjesus downvoted both of my comments without responding. But they usually do, and I genuinely like to hear other people’s opinions — especially when they’re far different from mine.
Weird when a community that criticizes instances for authoritarianism and groupthink is… well…
Downvote and move on, that’s a pretty basic reaction to something you don’t agree on the internet. Not all interaction on the internet need to be an essay and shit flinging, not everyone have the time to engage every comment they don’t like. I don’t really like it as well, but i do use it from time to time and i understand why people do it, they just don’t care about having argument every moment of their online life.
And i’m not sure what you mean by “critically engaging”, you simply posted a link and say it’s interesting. There’s nothing deep about it for people to engage other than a simple “ok”, which tend to replaced by the vote button.
A single user is hardly representative of an entire community, and also, downvotes don’t mean groupthink. Anyone can upvote or downvote for a variety of reasons. Personally, I very rarely vote, and I think downvotes should be removed entirely.
You know what? That’s my mistake. For whatever reason, I thought they were a mod here.
Regardless, posting the craziest parts of comment sections are no more representative of an instance than a single user represents a community. Basically any comment section over 30 comments is going to have some out-there ideas.
Having a community where people can openly call them “fascist bootlickers” for theories somewhat based on the context of the rest of the comments, that have nothing to do with fascism, is kinda nuts.
![Fascist bootlickers call Piefed a CIA op and thought policing because [checks notes] it has admin tools for checking upvote/downvote reputation](https://media.piefed.social/posts/y9/uO/y9uOwnSI62W4hjZ.jpg){kind=link}