I don’t get why so many people are saying this. Afaik, it doesn’t have channels within servers like Discord and Slack, which I feel is a defining feature in the text chat part of the apps.
Oh that is like the second most common thing on XMPP! It’s rooms/chats/conversations on servers/conferences/salons, etc. Like, come on, even IRC has that and that was made before I was born.
The one thing that’s complex, or at least bad in the UI I’ve seen for most XMPP clients, is that searchability of rooms is not very good. Like, discoverability is, but to my knowledge there’s no way to actually filter for rooms based on a keyword, you either get the whole roomlist for a server or nothing.
I think Iambalicious may be confusing terms. AFAIK no XMPP client has discord-like rooms within channels. The Movim client is actively working on implementing that feature (it can also do group video calls and screen sharing), but it’s the only one doing that unless I’m mistaken.
Thanks! Yeah because I’ve been scratching my head over their comment for some time now as I’m not able to figure out how to use it like I used use Discord.
Oh you mean nested rooms? That’s just normal rooms with a different organization. I think there is one XMPP proposal for them but I don’t know of any server that implements it (they are unneeded since you can just create temporary chatrooms, same as in IRC) and then you need client support, of which apparently only Movim and Dino are working on it yeah.
There’s a bit more to it than just their visual organization. In Discord, a user only needs to join a single community to access all of that community’s rooms (they don’t have to manually join each one to have it in their feed).
The admins of that community can then seamlessly create or delete rooms within that community (the users don’t need to do anything for those changes to be seen and applied on their end), and can independently adjust what the base requirements are to view, enter, or interact with each room, and then give an individual granular permissions of what rooms are visible within that community.
Oh yeah that already exists in XMPP, it’s called “Server spaces” and grouping can be done by admin or by room owners, but it’s experimental so there’s no direct way to know what servers or clients are using it or not.
One thing that worries me a little about fluxer is this:
Finally, we can offer commercial licences to companies that want to run Fluxer internally without being bound by the AGPLv3 copyleft terms. This is enabled via a contributor-friendly CLA, but it doesn’t create a separate “enterprise edition”. It’s still the same Fluxer software everyone else uses.
They have a CLA on contributions. So while today Fluxer is licensed as AGPLv3, tomorrow they can pull the rug and change the license, just like everyone else has been doing.
So while today Fluxer is licensed as AGPLv3, tomorrow they can pull the rug and change the license, just like everyone else has been doing.
Isn’t that just a problem for contributors to worry about though?
Like, it’s not like they can remove (or change the license of) the code that’s already out there (their CLA says existing source code releases stay licensed as-is), nor does this affect forks. So I don’t really see the harm to the consumer.
any distributed version that includes your contribution remains properly licensed under the project license(s) that applied when you contributed.
Like with most lisence concerns the avg idiot has no fucking idea what they are talking about and just think things are bad because they were told they were bad.
Yer entirely correct, as far as consumer and users are concerned it’s a fat fucking nothing burger.
And frankly while this is Lemmy and everyone here loves open source. In the real world the total of actual normal users that a community program like this is targeted at.
A grand total of fuck and all actually care. A closed source app is just as good as a open source one.
The onky thing that matters is management. And a open source app can be managed and ran like total dog shit just as much as a closed source one. Lisence also literally doesn’t fucking matter one bit.
Unless someone’s willing to step up fork the project and maintain it entirely on their own and build a whole new team.
Then it literally doesn’t fucking matter. The only thing that matters is there’s an option to fork. That’s literally it. Everything is might as well be people pissing in the wind and complaining about the taste.
They can’t retroactively close-source the older versions released under AGPL, but if it ever required a community fork to continue the last release of the GPL version, it would be a massive burden to maintain it, and could cause federation to break as the codebase diverges over time, which would create a rift in the community. You’d also have to hope that average users care enough about the license to jump ship to the GPL (probably now not as full-featured) version, otherwise the GPL version risks not being able to get enough funding to continue, or enough users to convince the larger communities to move over.
As a somewhat similar real world example, the pixel-art program Aseprite once used a FLOSS license, but it switched to a proprietary license at some point. The last GPL version was forked by the community, but it never got much traction, and is now massively behind the closed source version in features and userbase.
I’m not sure which horse to bet on Stoat or fluxer.app.
XMPP!
Stoat is dead in the water due to dependency on the UK and not an easy solution to deploy yet.
Fluxer is dead in the water due to license.
I don’t get why so many people are saying this. Afaik, it doesn’t have channels within servers like Discord and Slack, which I feel is a defining feature in the text chat part of the apps.
Oh that is like the second most common thing on XMPP! It’s rooms/chats/conversations on servers/conferences/salons, etc. Like, come on, even IRC has that and that was made before I was born.
The one thing that’s complex, or at least bad in the UI I’ve seen for most XMPP clients, is that searchability of rooms is not very good. Like, discoverability is, but to my knowledge there’s no way to actually filter for rooms based on a keyword, you either get the whole roomlist for a server or nothing.
Oh shoot, is it? I’m using Cheogram and Conversations on my phone and I can’t figure it out. I guess it depends on the client?? I’m a bit confused.
I think Iambalicious may be confusing terms. AFAIK no XMPP client has discord-like rooms within channels. The Movim client is actively working on implementing that feature (it can also do group video calls and screen sharing), but it’s the only one doing that unless I’m mistaken.
Thanks! Yeah because I’ve been scratching my head over their comment for some time now as I’m not able to figure out how to use it like I used use Discord.
Oh you mean nested rooms? That’s just normal rooms with a different organization. I think there is one XMPP proposal for them but I don’t know of any server that implements it (they are unneeded since you can just create temporary chatrooms, same as in IRC) and then you need client support, of which apparently only Movim and Dino are working on it yeah.
There’s a bit more to it than just their visual organization. In Discord, a user only needs to join a single community to access all of that community’s rooms (they don’t have to manually join each one to have it in their feed).
The admins of that community can then seamlessly create or delete rooms within that community (the users don’t need to do anything for those changes to be seen and applied on their end), and can independently adjust what the base requirements are to view, enter, or interact with each room, and then give an individual granular permissions of what rooms are visible within that community.
Oh yeah that already exists in XMPP, it’s called “Server spaces” and grouping can be done by admin or by room owners, but it’s experimental so there’s no direct way to know what servers or clients are using it or not.
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One thing that worries me a little about fluxer is this:
They have a CLA on contributions. So while today Fluxer is licensed as AGPLv3, tomorrow they can pull the rug and change the license, just like everyone else has been doing.
Hey, just wanted to give you an update that the Fluxer dev actually agreed to remove the CLA!
EDIT: The Fluxer dev agreed to remove the CLA!
Woah, didn’t know about that, thanks for the heads up. That’s definitely dampening my goodwill toward it.
As an alternative, I’d suggest Movim, which has no CLA, and is already federated.
Isn’t that just a problem for contributors to worry about though?
Like, it’s not like they can remove (or change the license of) the code that’s already out there (their CLA says existing source code releases stay licensed as-is), nor does this affect forks. So I don’t really see the harm to the consumer.
Like with most lisence concerns the avg idiot has no fucking idea what they are talking about and just think things are bad because they were told they were bad.
Yer entirely correct, as far as consumer and users are concerned it’s a fat fucking nothing burger.
And frankly while this is Lemmy and everyone here loves open source. In the real world the total of actual normal users that a community program like this is targeted at.
A grand total of fuck and all actually care. A closed source app is just as good as a open source one.
The onky thing that matters is management. And a open source app can be managed and ran like total dog shit just as much as a closed source one. Lisence also literally doesn’t fucking matter one bit.
Unless someone’s willing to step up fork the project and maintain it entirely on their own and build a whole new team.
Then it literally doesn’t fucking matter. The only thing that matters is there’s an option to fork. That’s literally it. Everything is might as well be people pissing in the wind and complaining about the taste.
They can’t retroactively close-source the older versions released under AGPL, but if it ever required a community fork to continue the last release of the GPL version, it would be a massive burden to maintain it, and could cause federation to break as the codebase diverges over time, which would create a rift in the community. You’d also have to hope that average users care enough about the license to jump ship to the GPL (probably now not as full-featured) version, otherwise the GPL version risks not being able to get enough funding to continue, or enough users to convince the larger communities to move over.
As a somewhat similar real world example, the pixel-art program Aseprite once used a FLOSS license, but it switched to a proprietary license at some point. The last GPL version was forked by the community, but it never got much traction, and is now massively behind the closed source version in features and userbase.
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Fluxer feels more full-featured to me