• Sharkticon@lemmy.zip
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    10 hours ago

    Buddy what on Earth are you talking about? You is the second person singular, its also 2nd person plural hence my comment. You all, or y’all, on the other hand is strictly 2nd person plural.

    • Dasus@lemmy.world
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      10 hours ago

      You is used as a second person singular in modern Southern-American English (ie Bumfuckcousinfuckernowhereville), but “thou” is the existing and non-used second person singular.

      Why would you even ask about this when it’s so fucking easy to Google it?

      The word thou (/ðaʊ/) is a second-person singular pronoun in English. It is now largely archaic, having been replaced in most contexts by the word you, although it remains in use in parts of Northern England and in Scots (/ðu:/ dhoo). Thou is the nominative form; the oblique/objective form is thee (functioning as both accusative and dative); the possessive is thy (adjective) or thine (as an adjective before a vowel or as a possessive pronoun); and the reflexive is thyself.

      Note that it doesn’t say “completely unused or archaic”. No. It’s largely archaic, and mostly replaced by the second person plural “you”. MOSTLY.

      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thou

      You seem to not know English well so I’ll just note that “mostly” means a different thing than “completely.” And “remains in use” means it’s still used.

      In the 18th century, Samuel Johnson, in A Grammar of the English Tongue, wrote: “in the language of ceremony … the second person plural is used for the second person singular”,

      He didn’t write “the second person singular is used for the second person plural”, but the other way.

      Thou are just dead wrong, which is very easy to check, but thou will never admit to it.

      • Sharkticon@lemmy.zip
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        10 hours ago

        What on Earth are you babbling about? I didn’t mention the word thou in my comment. You said that English lacked a second person singular.

        No, you lack a second person singular…

        You is the second person singular. Not just in southern America but everywhere. You used it multiple times already. The fact thay thou is also second person singular is irrelevant. You typed all of that for no reason whatsoever.

        • Dasus@lemmy.world
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          9 hours ago

          Like I said, you’ll never accept being wrong.

          You don’t understand the basics of linguistics and currently you’re arguing against an established fact. Your opinion doesn’t matter fuck all.

          Just because you don’t use a second person singular (ie the colloquial language lacks one, especially in Southern Usa) doesn’t mean you don’t have one.

          Not just in southern America but everywhere

          No matter how much you cry and whine, you’re still wrong.

          https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thou

          I know “y’all” have a hard time with literacy and English in general, but even you should be able to understand what “remains in use” means.

          it remains in use in parts of Northern England and in Scots

          Yet thou said “everywhere”, almost as if thou is having trouble accepting thy mistakes…? ;>

          • njm1314@lemmy.world
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            8 hours ago

            Yeah I’m not understanding your argument either. Are you arguing that “you” is not a second person singular in Modern English? It sounds like you are but then you also are using it currently so I’m confused.

            • Dasus@lemmy.world
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              7 hours ago

              It’s not. And this really isn’t complex.

              If you shit in a bucket, that doesn’t make the bucket a toilet seat. If you use a stone to hammer in a nail, it doesn’t become a hammer. It’s still a rock, and eveyone would refer to it as a rock.

              Hell, you could use a nail-gun as a hammer. And thus kt would be “a tool to help nails go in”, but it wouldn’t be a hammer, per se.

              “You” is not a second person singular despite being used as one.

              This really isn’t complex, you guys.

              https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thou

              the plural forms, ye and you, began to also be used for singular: typically for addressing rulers, superiors, equals, inferiors, parents, younger persons, and significant others.

              “Plural forms.” “Used as.”

              What’s so hard to understand about this I don’t get it.

              • njm1314@lemmy.world
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                6 hours ago

                Okay so your argument is basically that language never changes and never evolves? Because it wasn’t a second person singular 300 years ago it can’t be one today? All right. That seems silly but you do you.

                • Dasus@lemmy.world
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                  5 hours ago

                  By what perverted fucking reading do you get that from?

                  I’m not the one who makes up the definitions of academic linguistics.

                  Because it wasn’t a second person singular 300 years ago it can’t be one today?

                  Really? That’s the best you can come up with? A shitty strawman?

                  Just because you USE Y as X doesn’t mean Y becomes X. Is that so hard to comprehend? English STILL, TO THIS DAY, has a second person singular which is in use.

                  If we were having this conversation 500 years in the futures where the second person plural is something like (ewww) “y’all” exclusively and there wasn’t anyone using “thou” and the language had changed to treating “you” as the second person singular, THEN we could maybe consider your strawman.

                  But we aren’t, it hasn’t, and “thou” is still used. Wait a second… Feels line we’ve been over that fact…

                  OH YEAH

                  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thou

                  The word thou (/ðaʊ/) is a second-person singular pronoun in English. It is now largely archaic, having been replaced in most contexts by the word you, although it remains in use in parts of Northern England and in Scots (/ðu:/ dhoo).

                  Do you have a hard time understanding those two sentences? Do you know what “largely” means when attached to a word like “archaic”? Do you know what “remains in use” means?

                  Hey if the proper grammar is to say “he is going” but “you are going”, would you mind explaining why you’d use the plural form of the verb with the second person singular? Hmm?

                  You will just never be able to admit being wrong about this. It’s a shame, because it will limit your potential very badly.

                  • njm1314@lemmy.world
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                    2 hours ago

                    For the life of me I can’t understand you why you keep linking the same Wikipedia page to a word nobody is talking about. You’re continually making the argument that the word you is not a second person singular while still using the word you as a second person singular. Thou art utterly absurd. I’m going to block you now.

          • Sharkticon@lemmy.zip
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            2 hours ago

            Colloquially English lacks a second person singular? “You” is not colloquially used? That’s your assertion? Even though you use it in multiple times in your comment and you’re clearly understanding my use of it? Just want to clear that up cuz it seems insane.

            • Dasus@lemmy.world
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              7 hours ago

              Like I said, you’ll never admit to being wrong. You’re literally incapable.

              Here, let me just make this even simpler for you with an example, as I know you Americans have difficulties with anything intellectual

              Okay, so, imagine having a fancy new nail gun. Except you don’t know it’s a nail gun. And you just use it to bang in nails. Just because you use it as a hammer doesn’t make it one. If your boss came along and said “we need to nail things to this wall”, you’d correctly get the right tool. However, if your boss said “get me a hammer” and you got the nail gun you stupidly use to hammer in nails, your boss is gonna laugh at you.

              You is used as a second person singular. If you spoke any other languages or even raid the starting paragraph of the short Wiki article I linked twice already, you’d know why it is exactly so that it is a second person plural used as a singular, and not the other way around.

              But no, because you’re illiterate and cognitively lazy, but can’t admit it to yourself, you just simply will never admit to being wrong. We could have a professor of linguistics here telling you this, and you’d still continue your tantrum.

              I know you won’t understand this, but in my native and agglunative language, we use second person plurals to show respect. That’s how it was in English as well, but since English isn’t agglunative, it doesn’t really affect the grammar around it much, so it was easy to just default to the second person plural, because that was safer than accidentally offending someone. This is literally stated in the article you refuse to open (because it proves you wrong.)

              Starting in the 1300s, thou and thee were used to express familiarity, informality, or contempt, for addressing strangers, superiors, or inferiors, or in situations when indicating singularity to avoid confusion was needed; concurrently, the plural forms, ye and you, began to also be used for singular: typically for addressing rulers, superiors, equals, inferiors, parents, younger persons, and significant others.

              Notice how it says “plural forms USED AS”? No? Can’t even address the article or the history or anything actually objective? Just “wyaaa wyaaa wyaaa I’m not wrong bcus bcus bcus ur stoopid”?

              the uncertainty of using thou for inferiors versus you for superiors (with you being the safer default)

              https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thou#History

              I’ve seen this tantrum literally a million times.

                • Dasus@lemmy.world
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                  2 hours ago

                  And you sound like the dipshits who couldn’t be arsed to read in basic education and is now annoyed they’re childish insults don’t actually constitute arguments.

                  Must be a bitch being dumb, huh?