Men are often sanctioned by women when they show weakness.
I’m a man. It is extremely rare for me to experience this firsthand. I can count on one hand how many times in my entire life, and its been decades since the most recent time. Even then it wasn’t criticism from a woman was close to me.
It’s usually pretty subtle. People will quietly lose respect for you and shut you out over time, or just gossip about you behind your back.
That being said, I dont give a shit about people’s perception of my manliness or sexuality. I’m straight, trained in martial arts and boxing, own guns and know how to use them, can fix things around the house decently well, moderately know my way around car repairs. But I’ll be sensitive and open with my feelings if I want to, which is frequent. I cry at weddings, funerals, sad movies, and even when I think about how lucky I am to have my wife. I joke about kissing the homes goodnight, and flirt back with gay dudes that hit on me (without leading them on).
I’m often DISAPPOINTED in people for how they react and judge sometimes, but always happier when those people remove themselves from my life. I don’t fawn after the approval of random assholes, be they male or female, and I never let it affect who I am. That’s what manliness actually is about: self actualization.
It’s usually pretty subtle. People will quietly lose respect for you and shut you out over time, or just gossip about you behind your back.
Oh okay. I suppose that might happen more often but there are trash people everywhere that do shitty things like that based upon race, sexual preference, etc. I don’t spend any time sorting them into different groups before I dismiss them and ignore them.
That being said, I dont give a shit about people’s perception of my manliness or sexuality.
Yep, that’s my same state. As such, I don’t feel I have a need for a “safe space” in sports to express my emotions. I have no problem with other men expressing their emotions in sports spaces either, I just personally have that need for a defined space.
I’m often DISAPPOINTED in people for how they react and judge sometimes, but always happier when those people remove themselves from my life. I don’t fawn after the approval of random assholes, be they male or female, and I never let it affect who I am. That’s what manliness actually is about: self actualization.
I agree entirely. Just to note, self actualization absolutely also encompasses “empathy” as well, and that, in my mind, is one of the most important aspects. Knowing yourself means perceiving the world and those around you, and understanding the impacts of that world on others, and the impacts we each have on those. I’m pointing this out because what it looks like we’re having here is ultimately a discussion on empathy.
On your last note, I agree with you that empathy is important. I do give a shit what other people think and feel, but not when they are clearly line stepping, judgmental, and disrespectful. When they do that, it just proves it is time to move on.
It’s literally impossible to people please because people have wildly varying and opposite opinions. People will say stuff like “women say they want x but then complain when you do x!” First, that’s goomba fallacy, and second, you need to develop your own principles, and your people, male or female, will find you. Also, women can easily tell if you are trying to people please, and it is a turn off to them. If instead you’re just confident about what you stand for, they’ll agree and follow you even if they didn’t think that way before you told them. This is why there’s a stereotype of women dating assholes. You don’t have to be an asshole, you just have to have principles that you confidently stand by. This doesn’t mean that you can’t listen to other people’s opinions, or you can’t show “weakness” in emotion. You should, in fact, do both those things for your own benefit.
On your last note, I agree with you that empathy is important. I do give a shit what other people think and feel, but not when they are clearly line stepping, judgmental, and disrespectful. When they do that, it just proves it is time to move on.
I was mostly referring to empathy for the groups of men that want the show emotions for sports.
However for the shitty people we are dismissing, I can show empathy by understanding about the different socio-economic condidtions that likely make them into a raging homophobe or toxicly masculine asshole, but I in no way forgive them or condone their behavior. Understanding is a part of empathy, but it doesn’t have to follow that those that are disrespectful of other are to have that behavior be tolerated.
I’m a man. It is extremely rare for me to experience this firsthand. I can count on one hand how many times in my entire life, and its been decades since the most recent time. Even then it wasn’t criticism from a woman was close to me.
It’s usually pretty subtle. People will quietly lose respect for you and shut you out over time, or just gossip about you behind your back.
That being said, I dont give a shit about people’s perception of my manliness or sexuality. I’m straight, trained in martial arts and boxing, own guns and know how to use them, can fix things around the house decently well, moderately know my way around car repairs. But I’ll be sensitive and open with my feelings if I want to, which is frequent. I cry at weddings, funerals, sad movies, and even when I think about how lucky I am to have my wife. I joke about kissing the homes goodnight, and flirt back with gay dudes that hit on me (without leading them on).
I’m often DISAPPOINTED in people for how they react and judge sometimes, but always happier when those people remove themselves from my life. I don’t fawn after the approval of random assholes, be they male or female, and I never let it affect who I am. That’s what manliness actually is about: self actualization.
Oh okay. I suppose that might happen more often but there are trash people everywhere that do shitty things like that based upon race, sexual preference, etc. I don’t spend any time sorting them into different groups before I dismiss them and ignore them.
Yep, that’s my same state. As such, I don’t feel I have a need for a “safe space” in sports to express my emotions. I have no problem with other men expressing their emotions in sports spaces either, I just personally have that need for a defined space.
I agree entirely. Just to note, self actualization absolutely also encompasses “empathy” as well, and that, in my mind, is one of the most important aspects. Knowing yourself means perceiving the world and those around you, and understanding the impacts of that world on others, and the impacts we each have on those. I’m pointing this out because what it looks like we’re having here is ultimately a discussion on empathy.
On your last note, I agree with you that empathy is important. I do give a shit what other people think and feel, but not when they are clearly line stepping, judgmental, and disrespectful. When they do that, it just proves it is time to move on.
It’s literally impossible to people please because people have wildly varying and opposite opinions. People will say stuff like “women say they want x but then complain when you do x!” First, that’s goomba fallacy, and second, you need to develop your own principles, and your people, male or female, will find you. Also, women can easily tell if you are trying to people please, and it is a turn off to them. If instead you’re just confident about what you stand for, they’ll agree and follow you even if they didn’t think that way before you told them. This is why there’s a stereotype of women dating assholes. You don’t have to be an asshole, you just have to have principles that you confidently stand by. This doesn’t mean that you can’t listen to other people’s opinions, or you can’t show “weakness” in emotion. You should, in fact, do both those things for your own benefit.
The rest we seem completely on the same page on.
I was mostly referring to empathy for the groups of men that want the show emotions for sports.
However for the shitty people we are dismissing, I can show empathy by understanding about the different socio-economic condidtions that likely make them into a raging homophobe or toxicly masculine asshole, but I in no way forgive them or condone their behavior. Understanding is a part of empathy, but it doesn’t have to follow that those that are disrespectful of other are to have that behavior be tolerated.