Who knew I was a Taoist all along? I thought I was a nihilist. Not the kind with black turtlenecks but another kind. I’ve always been a bit interested in Dao/Taoism but never studied. All of the western weirdos who were into Eastern philosophy scared me off. I didn’t want to turn into one of them like Steve Jobs or that hippy book about motorcycle maintenance. I believe in living in the moment and always have. Back when I was first studying Chinese I learned all the words for moving around: directions, street signs and so on because those are immediately useful. A lot of them had the character dao in them somewhere, like dadao, boulevard or daoda, arrive.

One day, I step into the vestibule of some random temple and there is a two-story high scroll of the character 到.

As I craned my neck to see the top, I said, “ooooh, I get it! Dao! The way!”

Upon seeing this, I was enlightened.

  • Nacarbac [comrade/them]@hexbear.netEnglish
    20·
    28 days ago

    I remember reading a few pieces where the whichever sage is there will almost blatantly turn to the reader and say “you’re not gonna get it here nerd, go look at the people outside touching grass”. And then a thousand years of commentaries are kinda like “yeah, go outside”, “when the Sage says to go outside, it means you should drop this book”, and “I quite like bird watching”.

    You might still like them though, they can be quite funny. No need to study or make notes or whatever, just read a couple casually.

    • xijinpingist [none/use name]@hexbear.netOPEnglish
      15·
      28 days ago

      I never trust translations, sadly. Not since I saw two Harvard scholars of Chinese sing a song about how to remember the order of dynasties and they had the worst pronunciation ever. Super cringe. Knee how? Because speaking the language is beneath them.
      That’s in the textbooks, too. They write them. Because obviously the only reason to learn is go go all the way to classical Chinese so you can read Tang dynasty poetry and Mencius in the original. I got all the way to the end of Book 1 of a well-regarded series and couldn’t say, “where’s the bathroom?” When I complained about this I was told off in a contemptuous tone, “buy a phrasebook, loser.”

  • Krem [he/him, they/them]@hexbear.netEnglish
    14·
    27 days ago

    Daoism is wacky and I like it.

    I also like the western “Daoism” which is only about “going with the flow” “be like water” “wu wei” and all that. I say “western” because while these things are some of the foundations of actual daoism, the western version just stops there and imagines that it’s just a “whoah, brah, it’s all chill, and , like the universe”

    actual daoism, as it’s practiced in east asia, is intense. it’s weird. it’s about hell and the underworld. it’s about death. it’s about heaven or multiple heavens. it’s about one or more earths. it’s about thousands of gods and spirits. there are intense rituals. there is prayer. there is possession. there is exorcism. there are alchemical potions. there are martial arts that are not about martial arts. it’s weird and awesome and I like it.

    a two-story high scroll of the character 到

    this is pretty funny halal

    • xijinpingist [none/use name]@hexbear.netOPEnglish
      12·
      28 days ago

      A bowl is most useful when it is empty. But most useless.
      That’s what I always disliked about Eastern philosophy, how it doesn’t seem to ever actually do anything and tries to think up the most clever tricks of language instead. I caught a podcast on Confucianism and this is the Lawful Neutral ethos I’ve been looking for. It’s one that must be studied, though. The Confucian scholar is all about studying. China is what a country looks like after the brainy nerds won. Not the creepy kind of incel nerd, but the pre-computer nerd kind of nerd.

      • Vegafjord oakframer@lemmy.mlEnglish
        11·
        28 days ago

        It doesnt do anything? Its a foundation of chinese society, how does that equate to nothing? Yin yang, five elements, taiji chuan, chinese medicine to mention some.

              • Vegafjord oakframer@lemmy.mlEnglish
                7·
                28 days ago

                I can say that the quote resonates with me in the sense that I do believe that we should challenge the words we are using in our everyday life, and potentially swap them out.

                • xijinpingist [none/use name]@hexbear.netOPEnglish
                  5·
                  27 days ago

                  That is straight-up Derrida thinking.

                  “There’s glory for you!”

                  “I don’t know what you mean by ‘glory’,” Alice said.

                  Humpty Dumpty smiled contemptuously. “Of course you don’t - till I tell you. I meant ‘there’s a nice knock-down argument for you’!” “But ‘glory’ doesn’t mean ‘a nice knock-down argument’,” Alice objected.

                  “When I use a word,” Humpty Dumpty said in rather a scornful tone, “it means just what I choose it to mean, neither more or less.” “The question is,” said Alice, “whether you can make words mean so many different things.”

                  “The question is,” said Humpty Dumpty, “which is to be Master - that’s all.”

                  – Alice in Wonderland

      • theturtlemoves [he/him]@hexbear.netEnglish
        11·
        27 days ago

        That’s what I always disliked about Eastern philosophy, how it doesn’t seem to ever actually do anything and tries to think up the most clever tricks of language instead.

        I actually like Chinese philosophy, particularly Confucianism, because of how materialistic it is. It’s about running a state and keeping people from killing each other, while a lot of Greek philosophy is about the nature of the self yada yada.

        The development of the various schools, and their support bases, is also interesting from a historical materialist perspective. You have the Confucians (nerds), who look at a world in war and destruction, and say ‘this suffering is because of lack of knowledge. If we educate everyone to follow rules, respect their superiors and protect those below them, there will be peace. So we must fund education and research, and thoroughly educate emperors and officers.’

        Then the Mohists, who come from the working classes, say ‘have you seen these snobs? They exploit us all the time and would start a war if it benefits them, since it’ll be us dying for them. So we need to train weaker groups to resist the strong, and do away with useless luxuries like rituals and elaborate musical performances’.

        The Legalists (civil servants) attack the Confucians from another angle, pointing out that statecraft is not as black and white as the Confucians think, and that the only quality on which a public servant should be judged is the ability to get things done. ‘It does not matter if the cat is black or white, as long as it catches mice.’

        Finally you have the Taoists, who were originally mystics, but whose teaching that government should interfere as little as possible won them the support of the merchants. Absolutely fascinating how each class came up with its own philosophical tradition according to its material interests.

  • Damarcusart [he/him, comrade/them]@hexbear.netEnglish
    12·
    27 days ago

    A lot of the white guys who get really into eastern philosophy do it because they think it will make them more powerful, that it is some kind of magical secret that mysterious oriental monks take lifetimes to master, but their superior white boy abilities means they can become an expert after reading the wikipedia page on it and will unlock the magical secret that will allow them to become super rich and powerful.

    • Jabril [none/use name]@hexbear.netEnglish
      2·
      27 days ago

      A white man walks around the world, succeeding at everything without even trying: “is this the divine mandate of heaven? Is this the sound of one hand clapping?”

    • xijinpingist [none/use name]@hexbear.netOPEnglish
      2·
      27 days ago

      In my experience it’s people who don’t actually care about the philosophy but want to say that they are, to get as far away as possible from anything western and say, “look at me, I’m so fucking cool because I embrace The Other!” Poseurs.