The claims have changed so much it seems that you also disagree with the meme at this point.
If you felt the need to add all those qualifiers (not wrong, btw), then it’s clear that you wouldn’t describe the EU as an “imperialist nazi state” either.
And that’s before we ask other things, eg why Ukraine and not Russia?
I would not communicate OP’s broader point the same way, but I wouldn’t go so far as to say I disagree with it. The EU is a coaliton of right-wing imperialist states, this is true. Russia isn’t imperialist, while Ukraine is a tool of imperialism much like Israel.
The EU is a coaliton of right-wing imperialist states, this is true.
Not really all right wing but perhaps compared to your politics. Or mine tbh
Russia isn’t imperialist
I’m confused about this. I checked to see if I had the right definition, just in case, and this is wikipedia’s:
imperialism is the maintaining and extending of power over foreign nations, particularly through expansionism, employing both hard power and soft power.
How does this not perfectly describe what Russia is doing in Ukraine?
Do you have an alternative definition you’re working with?
All EU member states are capitalist and depend on imperialism and neocolonialism. In that sense, they are all right wing, left wing countries would be like China and Cuba.
As for imperialism, the first part of the definition is vague enough that it applies to countries like Burkina Faso kicking France out of Africa, while the second would make the Statesian North annexing the confederacy “imperialism.” Wikipedia affirmatively takes the definition of imperialism that makes it as vague as possible, reducing it to a policy preference rather than a materialist system with definite causes and necessary conclusions.
Imperialism in the modern era, as course of fact, is a stage in capitalist development. When markets are fully saturated domestically, capital expands outward. Once industrial and bank capital grow, they merge and dominate the entire economy, resulting in the dominance of finance capital in the economy and an export of capital, rather than commodities. This is how the west plunders the world in the modern era, and what Russia cannot do.
Imperialism in the modern era, as course of fact, is a stage in capitalist development. When markets are fully saturated domestically, capital expands outward. Once industrial and bank capital grow, they merge and dominate the entire economy, resulting in the dominance of finance capital in the economy and an export of capital, rather than commodities. This is how the west plunders the world in the modern era, and what Russia cannot do.
So…what do you call BRICS, then? Just because the Imperialism is currently less influential than its competition, doesn’t stop it from being Imperialism.
Simply stating something as if it were a fact, doesn’t make it true. BRICS perfectly fits the description you gave. It’s literally an alternative market, centered around the countries typically excluded by the “Western market”. By its own definition, it was formed to compete with Western markets for global economic influence, and to expand the market capabilities of its member states.
That fits every criteria of your limited definition of imperialism.
Russia also fits the standard definition of an imperialist state due to their hostile military occupations of neighboring countries, as well as their aggressive influence campaigns targeting foreign governments around the world. They literally check every single box.
BRICS is an international trade organization, not a means by which a tiny cluster of countries that are dominated by finance capital gain money by exporting capital and expropriate wealth from the global south. This is why BRICS is made up of largely developing economies. It absolutely does not fit my definition in the slightest.
Secondly, war is not imperialism. War can be done to cement it or aid it, but it is not itself imperialism. Otherwise Burkina Faso kicking France out would be “imperialism” against France.
Lol! “It does not fit your definition in the slightest” because you are ignoring all the things that define it as an economic system. You said it yourself…it is an “international trade organization”. What exactly do you think the purpose of that, is? Why does it exist?
C’mon, man. I know you aren’t that dim.
And war is absolutely imperialism, when the objectives are to expand wealth through land and resource acquisition. Especially when force is used to acquire those lands and resources. Russia tried to get it through regime change first, and when the people of Ukraine rejected those efforts…they invaded.
That is literally the defining characteristic of classic imperialism. Expansion through dominance.
I see where you’re coming from now. I think if you define imperialism in that way, it makes sense that you would consider all of those countries imperialist.
When markets are fully saturated domestically, capital expands outward. Once industrial and bank capital grow, they merge and dominate the entire economy, resulting in the dominance of finance capital in the economy …
But this whole description seems weird to me. Are there any powerful capitalist countries that could avoid this?
And I still don’t think Russia could possibly escape this definition. They have BRICS and are a major oil trader. They physically are trying to occupy another country right now. They use Russian language and state media to influence Eastern European countries in particular.
Capitalist countries cannot avoid becoming imperialist as they grow, but the pond is finite, with a gang of imperialist countries at the top. This forces the rest of the world into contention with imperialism. As for Russia, trade and BRICS are not imperialism. Russia has an absolutely paltry sum of finance capital, and runs largely on production and export of commodities.
So Russia with more finance capital and less commodities trade would be imperialist, but the way it is, they aren’t?
I think I get what you’re saying now. But it seems so arbitrary. Why should I give a shit who’s imperialist by this specific definition? It would basically make 0% difference to how much Russia is a problem for the world
The problem is that the entire world is already divided up between the imperialist powers. Rising capitalist powers cannot simply take their imperialist share, because there’s nowhere to gobble up. This causes conflict between imperialist powers, like the schism rising between the US as the world’s imperial hegemon and core imperialist countries like the UK, France, and Germany. The important bit is that Russia is playing a progressive role against imperialism.
The definition of imperialism is not arbitrary, it describes a system that results in immense plunder and underdevelopment of the global south. The west has its riches off the backs of the global south, to this day. Russia does not. If Russia was to join NATO, join the EU, transition to a more imperialist economy, etc then it would go from playing a progressive role against imperialism to playing an actively imperialist role.
Imperialism is not arbitrary. It’s the largest global obstacle to human progress, and the advance of socialism.
“Many of them”
“Either in power or coming to power”
“Rely on”
The claims have changed so much it seems that you also disagree with the meme at this point.
If you felt the need to add all those qualifiers (not wrong, btw), then it’s clear that you wouldn’t describe the EU as an “imperialist nazi state” either.
And that’s before we ask other things, eg why Ukraine and not Russia?
Because it’s dumb propaganda
I would not communicate OP’s broader point the same way, but I wouldn’t go so far as to say I disagree with it. The EU is a coaliton of right-wing imperialist states, this is true. Russia isn’t imperialist, while Ukraine is a tool of imperialism much like Israel.
Not really all right wing but perhaps compared to your politics. Or mine tbh
I’m confused about this. I checked to see if I had the right definition, just in case, and this is wikipedia’s:
How does this not perfectly describe what Russia is doing in Ukraine?
Do you have an alternative definition you’re working with?
All EU member states are capitalist and depend on imperialism and neocolonialism. In that sense, they are all right wing, left wing countries would be like China and Cuba.
As for imperialism, the first part of the definition is vague enough that it applies to countries like Burkina Faso kicking France out of Africa, while the second would make the Statesian North annexing the confederacy “imperialism.” Wikipedia affirmatively takes the definition of imperialism that makes it as vague as possible, reducing it to a policy preference rather than a materialist system with definite causes and necessary conclusions.
Imperialism in the modern era, as course of fact, is a stage in capitalist development. When markets are fully saturated domestically, capital expands outward. Once industrial and bank capital grow, they merge and dominate the entire economy, resulting in the dominance of finance capital in the economy and an export of capital, rather than commodities. This is how the west plunders the world in the modern era, and what Russia cannot do.
So…what do you call BRICS, then? Just because the Imperialism is currently less influential than its competition, doesn’t stop it from being Imperialism.
Trade is not imperialism. BRICS is not imperialist.
Simply stating something as if it were a fact, doesn’t make it true. BRICS perfectly fits the description you gave. It’s literally an alternative market, centered around the countries typically excluded by the “Western market”. By its own definition, it was formed to compete with Western markets for global economic influence, and to expand the market capabilities of its member states.
That fits every criteria of your limited definition of imperialism.
Russia also fits the standard definition of an imperialist state due to their hostile military occupations of neighboring countries, as well as their aggressive influence campaigns targeting foreign governments around the world. They literally check every single box.
BRICS is an international trade organization, not a means by which a tiny cluster of countries that are dominated by finance capital gain money by exporting capital and expropriate wealth from the global south. This is why BRICS is made up of largely developing economies. It absolutely does not fit my definition in the slightest.
Secondly, war is not imperialism. War can be done to cement it or aid it, but it is not itself imperialism. Otherwise Burkina Faso kicking France out would be “imperialism” against France.
Lol! “It does not fit your definition in the slightest” because you are ignoring all the things that define it as an economic system. You said it yourself…it is an “international trade organization”. What exactly do you think the purpose of that, is? Why does it exist?
C’mon, man. I know you aren’t that dim.
And war is absolutely imperialism, when the objectives are to expand wealth through land and resource acquisition. Especially when force is used to acquire those lands and resources. Russia tried to get it through regime change first, and when the people of Ukraine rejected those efforts…they invaded.
That is literally the defining characteristic of classic imperialism. Expansion through dominance.
I see where you’re coming from now. I think if you define imperialism in that way, it makes sense that you would consider all of those countries imperialist.
But this whole description seems weird to me. Are there any powerful capitalist countries that could avoid this?
And I still don’t think Russia could possibly escape this definition. They have BRICS and are a major oil trader. They physically are trying to occupy another country right now. They use Russian language and state media to influence Eastern European countries in particular.
Capitalist countries cannot avoid becoming imperialist as they grow, but the pond is finite, with a gang of imperialist countries at the top. This forces the rest of the world into contention with imperialism. As for Russia, trade and BRICS are not imperialism. Russia has an absolutely paltry sum of finance capital, and runs largely on production and export of commodities.
So Russia with more finance capital and less commodities trade would be imperialist, but the way it is, they aren’t?
I think I get what you’re saying now. But it seems so arbitrary. Why should I give a shit who’s imperialist by this specific definition? It would basically make 0% difference to how much Russia is a problem for the world
The problem is that the entire world is already divided up between the imperialist powers. Rising capitalist powers cannot simply take their imperialist share, because there’s nowhere to gobble up. This causes conflict between imperialist powers, like the schism rising between the US as the world’s imperial hegemon and core imperialist countries like the UK, France, and Germany. The important bit is that Russia is playing a progressive role against imperialism.
The definition of imperialism is not arbitrary, it describes a system that results in immense plunder and underdevelopment of the global south. The west has its riches off the backs of the global south, to this day. Russia does not. If Russia was to join NATO, join the EU, transition to a more imperialist economy, etc then it would go from playing a progressive role against imperialism to playing an actively imperialist role.
Imperialism is not arbitrary. It’s the largest global obstacle to human progress, and the advance of socialism.
Hmm OK. I don’t think you really addressed my question but it’s fine. Everyone’s imperialist. Except Russia of course, famously progressive Russia.
Anyway, thanks for explaining what you meant