Frankly, it’s a moral panic at this point. Most of the accusations being slung against data centers are ridiculous, but the accusations are scary and so people get frightened. When a bunch of people are frightened together, you have a mob. Mobs self-perpetuate.
Just look at this very thread. Comments can be completely content-free, but as long as they align with “AI bad!” They get the upvotes. Any comments that question that narrative get downvotes. Eventually you end up with an echo chamber. It’s unfortunately quite similar to how nuclear power got crippled for decades.
At least nuclear power has uses besides making some people lots of money. Which makes no sense because none of these companies are even profitable yet.
This is very wrong, please stop spreading this misinfo. I’d be happy to see you leave this community, to be honest. This is not the place for your brand of trash dumping.
Data centers consume resources and do work regardless of local load: even if local users make 5+million requests per minute (which average web use patterns suggest will be much, much lower from average users), the bulk of a new data center + peering will be done in service of FAANG, not local users.
So no local profit from data center success except maybe a slightly more reliable streaming service.
But data centers don’t create local jobs, either, so local job market isnt improved either.
Datacentres are not only very often not required to pay for their infrastructure, by they often get massive tax breaks from communities that need the income.
And notice I’m leaving out water, since that is not a drawback on all datacentre types. I’m also leaving out gas-powered turbines some data centers have employed to power themselves, which is adisguating and abhorrent disregard for doing any kind of service to help slow human-induced climate change.
So:
no local jobs
profit leaves area
don’t contribute to the community in taxes
So tell us again why datacentres are “moral panic”?
Alternatively, as I mentioned, feel free to leave this community, and not to return.
I think your comparison to nuclear power is very apt: it’s a panic that arises from real world examples of things going terribly wrong. I agree that we should have more nuclear power, and I agree that we should have more datacenters in Canada in general, if nothing else for data sovereignty. But the public resistance is justified, just as it was after the horrors of nuclear contamination became clear: these datacenters, especially AI-compute, are power hungry and don’t generate that many jobs, so it’s an even worse tradeoff than a regular automotive manufacturer coming to town. The public outcry is not useless: we should use it to push the datacenters to plug into our grid responsibly and priced accordingly, collect heat waste for other uses etc
No, but some kind of supporting evidence or argument would be nice. I often include links in my comments when I’m debating a topic.
In this particular case the thread isn’t literally about AI itself, but rather public opinion about it. That makes the “AI bad” comments even more low-effort.
You’re saying the same thing I’m saying - that these discussion fora don’t have well-substantiated content. Makes it easy for emotional arguments and groupthink to go off in whatever direction and exclude any contradictory viewpoints.
Well, I did say it would be nice if people made reasoned comments instead of just repeating whatever makes them popular.
But ultimately the question this thread is about is “What’s behind the growing backlash towards AI data centers?” And I’m answering it. I think the backlash is a moral panic and it’s magnified by the nature of fora like this one.
Frankly, it’s a moral panic at this point. Most of the accusations being slung against data centers are ridiculous, but the accusations are scary and so people get frightened. When a bunch of people are frightened together, you have a mob. Mobs self-perpetuate.
Just look at this very thread. Comments can be completely content-free, but as long as they align with “AI bad!” They get the upvotes. Any comments that question that narrative get downvotes. Eventually you end up with an echo chamber. It’s unfortunately quite similar to how nuclear power got crippled for decades.
At least nuclear power has uses besides making some people lots of money. Which makes no sense because none of these companies are even profitable yet.
This is very wrong, please stop spreading this misinfo. I’d be happy to see you leave this community, to be honest. This is not the place for your brand of trash dumping.
Data centers consume resources and do work regardless of local load: even if local users make 5+million requests per minute (which average web use patterns suggest will be much, much lower from average users), the bulk of a new data center + peering will be done in service of FAANG, not local users.
So no local profit from data center success except maybe a slightly more reliable streaming service.
But data centers don’t create local jobs, either, so local job market isnt improved either.
Datacentres are not only very often not required to pay for their infrastructure, by they often get massive tax breaks from communities that need the income.
And notice I’m leaving out water, since that is not a drawback on all datacentre types. I’m also leaving out gas-powered turbines some data centers have employed to power themselves, which is adisguating and abhorrent disregard for doing any kind of service to help slow human-induced climate change.
So:
So tell us again why datacentres are “moral panic”?
Alternatively, as I mentioned, feel free to leave this community, and not to return.
Well there well be a couple jobs you have the guy at the front 24/7
It’s ironic that your answer to me calling communities like this an echo chamber is “you should leave.”
You are free to block me if you don’t want to see me saying things you disagree with.
Typical.
I think your comparison to nuclear power is very apt: it’s a panic that arises from real world examples of things going terribly wrong. I agree that we should have more nuclear power, and I agree that we should have more datacenters in Canada in general, if nothing else for data sovereignty. But the public resistance is justified, just as it was after the horrors of nuclear contamination became clear: these datacenters, especially AI-compute, are power hungry and don’t generate that many jobs, so it’s an even worse tradeoff than a regular automotive manufacturer coming to town. The public outcry is not useless: we should use it to push the datacenters to plug into our grid responsibly and priced accordingly, collect heat waste for other uses etc
The comments that ‘question the narrative’ get downvoted because they make claims that are opposed by the evidence.
Where? The only one I see is “Common sense!” with a grand total of 3 upvotes.
That is indeed a prime example. There are a couple of “because environment” ones too.
Are you expecting everyone to write out a full essay to support their position?
No, but some kind of supporting evidence or argument would be nice. I often include links in my comments when I’m debating a topic.
In this particular case the thread isn’t literally about AI itself, but rather public opinion about it. That makes the “AI bad” comments even more low-effort.
It makes sense for a debate, but most interactions here are just plain conversations.
You’re saying the same thing I’m saying - that these discussion fora don’t have well-substantiated content. Makes it easy for emotional arguments and groupthink to go off in whatever direction and exclude any contradictory viewpoints.
Yeah, were observing the same thing. The only difference is that you seem to be saying that it’s wrong for people to hold casual conversations here.
Well, I did say it would be nice if people made reasoned comments instead of just repeating whatever makes them popular.
But ultimately the question this thread is about is “What’s behind the growing backlash towards AI data centers?” And I’m answering it. I think the backlash is a moral panic and it’s magnified by the nature of fora like this one.
Enjoy your brown water.