The Jewish-supremacist ideology motivating genocide has widespread support among Canada’s elites.

  • acargitz@lemmy.ca
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    il y a 9 heures

    Zionism is so rampant in Canada’s Jewish community that it has effectively become more important than Judaism, though many, if not most, Jewish Canadians say the two are actually one.

    Many anti-Zionists dispute this assertion in theological terms, but I don’t care about these debates, in the same way that theological schisms in Christianity are of no interest to me outside of the odd late-night Wikipedia search.

    I cannot stress how much I vehemently disagree with this kind of anti-intellectual statement. Both for Judaism/Zionism différence but also for the schisms of Christianity. This kind of know-nothing assertion would be instantly flagged as very very stupid if the writer was trying to flatten for example the differences between Sunni and Shia Muslims, or the difference between Palestinian/Muslim (Palestinian Christians exist).

    The distinction between Zionism and Judaism is not cosmetic, it is the very heart of the matter. It is the key to defeating politically Zionism here in the West. And to make this conflation precisely when Canadian anti-Zionist Jews are actually taking on the fight at the highest levels of the national discourse is downright politically idiotic. (The NDP has a leader and an executive president who are both proud and very outspoken members of IJV.) At the same time, there is a very important shift in US centre-left Jewish discourse, which will unavoidably have an echo here because of course it will.

  • Tigeroovy@lemmy.ca
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    il y a 7 heures

    Only tangentially related but I learned recently that Kars4Kids is completely just an Israel scam that uses that money to send like 17-18 year old Jewish teens who are looking to take a gap year after graduating high school on a trip to Israel for free, I think also including their families?

    So the “Kids” being helped from this charity are almost adults getting a free Israel propaganda vacation.

    Like none of that money does jack shit to benefit the local communities where it’s advertised. I’ve heard that shit on the west coast of Canada for years! They make the Australian radio DJ’s say it!

    • marxismtomorrow@lemmy.today
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      Not just Jewish teens, but Jewish teens from one specific community in New Jersey, to be absolutely clear.

      And yes they’ve been sued multiple times for this, and yes they’re somehow still allowed to advertise in several states and Canada for this.

      So yes, they’re stealing Canadian’s money so that US Jewish kids from one specific community essentially get to party in Israel for free.

  • SpaceCowboy@lemmy.ca
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    il y a 10 heures

    I guess the other shoe has dropped hasn’t it?

    Now the “anti-zionist” movement is finding ways to attack Canadian Jews. So now that anti-zionism is about attacking Jews no matter which country they’re from can we just call it what it is: antisemitism?

    That’s what this article is dedicated to isn’t it? It’s dedicated to transferring hatred of Israel onto Canadian Jews. You can’t claim this is “just criticizing Israel” when you’re attacking Canadian Jews.

    Zionism isn’t the most successful hate movement in Canada. Anti-zionism is. It’s duped a lot of people into a antisemitism. There’s nothing else this article can be considered to be. It’s not about the Israeli government, it’s entirely focused on stirring up hatred toward Canadian Jews.

    Canada fought a war against antisemitic assholes. We won that war. It’s shameful that 2/3 of racially motivated crimes this year have been targeting Jews.

    Y’all need to understand that you’re in a weird little bubble. Jews are welcome in Canada. Antisemitism is the tool of the enemies of Canada. We hanged antisemites at Nuremberg, you’d think that would’ve got the point across.

    You aren’t Canadian if you support antisemitism. You are the enemy of Canada.

    • MartianRecon@lemmus.org
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      il y a 6 heures

      Man you guys just can’t help but play the victim at every turn, can you?

      If you’re a supporter of zionism, you deserve to be criticized. That’s no different, than if you were a supporter of the KKK. Yeah, people are going to judge your ass for being a bigot.

      Someone being against the state of Israel systematically stealing land, bombing women and children, and acting like a barbarous state that is wantonly breaking international laws, is not the same as someone hating someone for their religion.

      If you can’t see the difference between these two things, I really don’t know what to tell you.

      • SpaceCowboy@lemmy.ca
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        Who’s “you guys”? I’m not Jewish, I just had grand parents that fought a war against antisemitc assholes. Because I’m Canadian. You’re not attacking a Jew like you obviously want to. You’re attacking a Canadian with Canadian values.

        If you’re a supporter of zionism, you deserve to be criticized. That’s no different, than if you were a supporter of the KKK. Yeah, people are going to judge your ass for being a bigot.

        If’ you’re attacking Jews b in Canada because of some internet bullshit rationalizations, then I’m judging your ass for being a bigot. Because you are. You’re an antisemitic bigot. Hating people simply because they share the same religion as some people on the other side of the world that are doing things you don’t like is bigotry.

        Canada is a multi-cultural country and we don’t discriminate based on race, colour, or creed here. And that’s what this article is pushing for. Jews can feel a connection to their religion and where it originated from. That’s their creed. They should not be attacked for their creed. That’s being anti-Canadian. And being Canadian, I take that personally.

        Go move to the US if you want to be an anti-Canadian bigot.

        • MartianRecon@lemmus.org
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          Man you like putting words in my mouth huh?

          Who am I attacking? I’m saying that if you support zionism (not Jews), then you should be criticized. There. Really simple right? zionists believe that their theft of land from people, and continued theft of land is okay. Want me to come into your house and take it over? What, that’s different? That’s about the same amount of ‘right’ that zionists have to Palestinian land.

          If you support bigots on the other side of the world and their actions, guess what, you’re no different than them.

          This is comically simple. You’re looking for a reason to attack people who don’t like zionists.

          • SpaceCowboy@lemmy.ca
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            il y a 37 minutes

            You’re constantly connecting Canadian citizens to something happening on the other side of the world based solely on religion and ethnicity. That’s racist as fuck.

            Want me to come into your house and take it over?

            Are you threatening me? You spend some time on the internet looking at images of a war and then you think that gives you the right to go after Canadians that have a different religion than you. That’s how things work when you’re in a hate group. They constantly expose you to content that make you angry to keep you angry because that makes you easy to control. You’re angry at people on the other side of the world but you can’t do anything. Then they direct your anger towards people in your own country.

            That’s where you cross the line from being another idiot on the internet just going along with the crowd and hating some country everyone else is hating to being a bigot that hates people in your own country because of their religion and ethnicity.

            I want there to be peace in the Middle East. If this site were filled with people being racist towards Palestinians I’d be telling them they’re bigots. But this particular website is filled with people bigoted towards Jews. So I’m telling you that you’re a bigot.

            If you attack Canadian citizens whether they be Jewish, Muslim, or whatever religion or ethnicity, I’m going to stand up for those people against the bigoted assholes. Because that’s what Canada is to me.

            If you’re against Canadian Muslims, you’re against Canada. If you’re against Canadian Jews, you’re against Canada. I don’t care about the bullshit rationalizations your little hate group has filled your head with. If you’re against Canadian Jews you are anti-Canadian.

  • Canaconda@lemmy.ca
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    That’s cuz it’s literally in our textbooks. In highschool my history teacher elected to do a unit on Israel. The textbooks skipped right over zionist militia terrorizing communities and creating the initial wave of refugees that eventually ended up on the Gaza strip.

    The textbooks paint Israel as defending themselves when they militarily occupied Palestinian communities and the Arab states intervened. They made it seem like the Arab states attacked Israel for simply existing and not to stop literal fucking war crimes.

    Than there’s the Judeo-Christian element where some religious folk parrot “God’s Chosen People!” and they give them carte blanche, taxpayer dollars, and unholy amounts of firepower.

    Also AFAICT there’s no common denominator as to who in the Jewish community denounces zionism or supports it. Maybe I’m just not intrenched enough to hear the consensus pushback that I’m sure exists on the tabernacle level; and I do refrain from demanding an answer from Jewish people cuz I think that’s wrong. But its a 50/50 for who is willing to denounce zionism and who seems to have bought into the propaganda.

    • Rat_in_a_hat@lemmy.ca
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      Maybe I’m just not intrenched enough to hear the consensus pushback that I’m sure exists on the tabernacle level; and I do refrain from demanding an answer from Jewish people cuz I think that’s wrong. But its a 50/50 for who is willing to denounce zionism and who seems to have bought into the propaganda.

      I think, unfortunately, that in Canada the ratio is more 70/30 with majority supporting Zionism, while the US is closer to 50/50.

      Historically and preceding WW2, Jewish immigrants preferred going to the US - Canada had a nasty habit of turning Jews away (even during and after the holocaust). The existinf US Jewish population managed to grow and create a culture that was very separate from what Zionism started to build in the late 19th/early 20th century in Europe.

      Because Canada’s Jewish population grew up with Zionist ideology being relevant to a great degree, the ratio is more skewed.

      Like the other user said, anti-zionist Jewish voices in Canada are lacking in institutions and numbers especially in comparison to the US. They exist and need to be supported as well.

    • orioler25@lemmy.ca
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      Canadians have supported Israeli genocide of Palestinians pretty much since the beginning (there are many cases of Jewish communities in Canada raising money to send to Israel as early as the 1920s). There is certainly nuance in how and why groups in Canada come to support it, but the Canadian state does first and foremost because Israel is another settler-colonial state and Canada must protect Israel’s right to commit genocide to ensure its own right to continue its genocide of First Nations and indigenous peoples of Turtle Island. This was of course only exacerbated by the wave of Islamophobia precipitated through the US imperialist campaigns in the Middle-East and Central Asia (which the Canadian state also supported, of course). Portrayals of Israel as a legitimate and moral polity in Canadian education curricula have predictably received very little opposition until quite recently, when the genocide took on a particularly visible phase following 2023.

      • Canaconda@lemmy.ca
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        Israel is another settler-colonial state and Canada must protect Israel’s right to commit genocide to ensure its own right to continue its genocide of First Nations

        AKA The Truth Canadians don’t want to Reconcile.

        • orioler25@lemmy.ca
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          Yes, which is why it’s so important that we don’t exceptionalize Zionists as a hate-group in Canada; it is something facilitated through the same system Canada participates in and enforces. The only reason liberals here are comfortable doing that now is they recognize that the popular opinion has shifted and they want to salvage the underlying morality and settler-colonial philosophy by constructing Zionism as anomalously violent and racist.

          • Canaconda@lemmy.ca
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            I get what you’re saying but IMO its misguided.

            Zionism in Canada is not the same as zionism in the Israeli regime. Its effect is fundamentally generating hatred towards Palestinians vs enacting hate.

            If exposing Israel’s colonialism leads people to normalize colonialism than you’re fighting a losing battle to begin with. Israel shines a mirror on Canada that is necessary for Canadians to see in order accept the truth.

            Now if you’re saying it’s lip service done at the opportunity cost of something more effective, I’m all ears. But as to your first point I don’t see a negative to calling Zionism a hate-group.

            • orioler25@lemmy.ca
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              I think you misunderstand what “exceptionalize” means in this use. Exceptionalizing means that something is defined as deviant with either a positive or negative connotation, or in other words, that its traits are constructed as exclusive to it rather than as typical of whatever group that the exceptioanlized thing belongs to.

              To exceptionalize Zionism as a hate-group would be to say that it is unusual in its motivations and tactics compared to settler-colonial states and politics generally as well as other hate groups. Zionism in Canada is very much enacting genocide in its moblization of sympathetic groups within Canada and influence on the investment and funding policies of institutions within Canada as well as the Canadian state; which again, directly supports Israel’s genocide of Palestinians. I’m not saying that Zionism should not be classified as a hate group or discussed as a hate group, since its subscribers do have specific political intentions and interests, but that we cannot exceptionalize the racist, genocidal politics of Zionists as anomalous or deviant from Canadian politics or from white supremacy. There is a misconception that Israel is somehow hyperbolic in its violence, even though its methods and effects are comparable to that of the US and Canada, and any white supremacist groups within them. Canada is a white supremacist state, despite incidental and periodic protections for racialized peoples, but considers overtly white supremacist groups as hate groups as it allows the state to define white supremacy by the image of those hate groups, not its underlying philosophy and historical processes.

              The reason Canadians are only willing to recognize Zionism as genocidal once its violence became undeniable during the most documented genocidal campaign in human history is exactly because that immorality is now obvious in the same way that white supremacist militias within Canada and the US are obviously immoral. The overtness of that violence allows the liberal state to construct its softer, more gradual tactics as something completely distinct from genocide or racism. A great example of why this is so important is the fact that Hamas is already defined as a terrorist group in the Criminal Code, which was recently amended through Bill C-9 to define hate as, “as an emotion of an intense and extreme nature that is clearly associated with vilification and detestation.” Therefore, any equivalency between these “hate groups” would mean that the politics of Zionists and Palestinian resistance are equivalent, “both sides are bad because they are exceptionally violent and express hatred for another group,” which hardly describes the power differential between those groups as well as the sympathy that the Canadian state has for only one of those groups and why.

              Hope that explains it better.

              ~ source for quote: https://www.justice.gc.ca/eng/csj-sjc/pl/c9/index.html

              • Canaconda@lemmy.ca
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                Okay fair point. Now I see what you’re saying.

                IMO the real reason young people are recognizing colonialism is because we’re in late stage colonialism (on a global scale) and if it wasn’t this generation it would be whichever future generation came of age during capitalism breaching insolvency. The economy has people experiencing the shoe on the other foot for the first time. That’s what’s breaking the spell. Not exposure to semantically accurate facts.

                IMO a false equivalence between Hamas/Zionists won’t convince people that Israel bombing hospitals and the USA bombing schools is where we want our tax dollars going.

                Cuz that is the core of the issue. Canadian tax payers are funding this. Way I see it the more top of mind that fact is the better.

                • orioler25@lemmy.ca
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                  I think it’s certainly fair to say that the receding benefits of colonialism and capitalism in the metropole has influenced how privileged groups have begun to question the legitimacy of this system, but it’s also important to remember that this isn’t the first time that’s happened in America or Europe, and liberalism is exceptional at appropriating challenging ideas. The current fascist culture in the US and Canada is the consequence of a decades-long neoliberalization of the economy and integration of social justice rhetoric into neoliberal politics with popular success (Jasbir Puar has produced some incredible scholarship on how this relates to contemporary imperialist and appropriation campaigns in Terrorist Assemblages: Homonationalism in Queer Times). It also isn’t like Canadians and Americans are terribly concerned about imperialism through “neocolonial” tactics like corporatization and privatization instead of direct state occupation and extractive enterprise.

                  For example, Canada hosts the majority of the world’s mining corporations, and the state heavily invests in that industry; the current Liberal government was elected on the grounds of being preferable to a more overtly fascistic Con platform and has since expanded public funding support for privatized extractive industries like fossil fuels as climate change kills more and more people in the Global South every year. So, the fact that most people only recognize the colonialism in Palestine as a result of Israel’s very visible and undeniable genocidal violence is actually beneficial to a system that primarily uses those more invisible and abstract mechanisms of genocidal violence. The genocide in Palestine is only a part of Canada’s participation in genocidal violence, and the state’s interest in supporting Israel is more peripheral than its investment in continued extractive and destructive industry in colonized spaces of the Global South.

                  That’s also why I’m saying that it is important to recognize the fundamental values behind these politics, as the majority of people are denied political literacy by this same state and are therefore vulnerable to rhetoric that occludes those values.

    • GreenBeard@lemmy.ca
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      Also AFAICT there’s no common denominator as to who in the Jewish community denounces zionism or supports it. Maybe I’m just not intrenched enough to hear the consensus pushback that I’m sure exists on the tabernacle level; and I do refrain from demanding an answer from Jewish people cuz I think that’s wrong. But its a 50/50 for who is willing to denounce zionism and who seems to have bought into the propaganda.

      AFAIK there’s a lot of diaspora Jews who are deeply against Israel right now, but they tend to lack the institutional organization and infrastructure of the hardcore zionists. Quite frankly I think the best thing we can do is make sure to offer to elevate the voices of dissent and help them build a platform for Anti-zionist Jews. Conflating opposition to Israel’s genocides with antisemitism is itself blood libel and the best way to push back on that narrative is to make it clear we stand with those Jews who oppose all forms of genocide, including those wrought by Jewish hands.

      • Canaconda@lemmy.ca
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        To be clear I’m not suggesting 50% of jews support Zionism. I would be surprised and horrified if that were the case.

        In my experience Jews are like Catholics. Unless they’re visibly catholic is really hard to determine where they fall on any individual issue.

        I think about the South Park scene where they ask Mrs. Broslowski about her views on Gaza to win a prediction market bet, but then end up offending her. One of the best B-plots in the show honestly.

        So I have not bothered to ask because in general I only associate with people who have basic empathy anyways so I’d be reaching pretty far outside my circles to learn anything new.

        • kreskin@lemmy.world
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          I’m not suggesting 50% of jews support Zionism. I would be surprised and horrified if that were the case.

          Bad news for you then. https://www.ajc.org/news/anti-zionist-jews

          Support for zionism in Israel is almost universal. Half of the worlds Jewish people live in Israel now. Of the 15.8 million Jewish people in the world, about 14 million of those live in Israel or the US.

          According to the AJC (American jewish committee) Eight out of 10 American Jews say caring about Israel is an essential or important part of what being Jewish means to them. More than 80% of American Jews support Israel’s military operation to recover Israeli hostages and remove Hamas from power.

          so averaging that out with the near 100% in Israel, you’re looking at over 90% of the US/Israeli Jewish people supporting Zionism. Its not great.

        • GreenBeard@lemmy.ca
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          Based on my limited experience, because I have kind of discussed it with my Jewish friends, the people most strongly for this kind of violence tend to self-select into actually moving to Israel, hence the people in Israel, tend to support the genocide. Outside, you tend to have a mix of elites who back Israel, and more middle/working class Jews who are horrified, but don’t have the social capital or NGOs to make their voices heard. It’s a bit of a broad brush generalization, but as a general trend.

          It always comes back to socio-economic class.

        • binux@sh.itjust.works
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          To be clear I’m not suggesting 50% of jews support Zionism

          I think it’s somewhere around 47% of the worldwide Jewish population lives in Israel. I know that doesn’t necessarily equate to being a Zionist, but it’s a pretty big indicator.

          There probably isn’t any way of knowing the total amount of Zionist Jews worldwide but I’d be willing to bet it’s pretty damn close to 50% if not there already. And I say that with no pleasure.

  • rozodru@piefed.world
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    yup just go to North York in Toronto. Hell the other week 10k zionists had a little parade for themselves with FULL police escort/protection. Proudly marching on and cheering the genocide of the Palestinian people.

    Police mobile units/trailers outside their schools? better believe it. wouldn’t want the zionists children harmed due to their parents actions. no other school has that.

  • Em Adespoton@lemmy.ca
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    I wouldn’t call it a hate movement; it’s too inward-focused.

    But like with any ultranationalist movement, it’s definitely heavily leveraged by those wanting to use it for their own hate-driven agenda. The two go hand in hand, but aren’t quite the same thing — dealing with each needs a slightly different approach, and getting rid of one won’t get rid of the other. THIS is the reason not to just label the entire zionist movement as hate/intolerance-driven Jewish supremacy. It’s only the diving board. Take it away and they’ll find something else.

    • Canaconda@lemmy.ca
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      I have yet to meet a zionist who wasn’t actively dehumanizing Palestinians to justify their worldview.

      • Em Adespoton@lemmy.ca
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        Valid point; usually anyone able to put humanity before nation isn’t going to be an ultranationalist of any type.

        • orioler25@lemmy.ca
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          Could you explain where you’re getting the term “ultranationalist,” and what distinguishes it from nationalism in this case?

          • marxismtomorrow@lemmy.today
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            Say you love your country and believe it should be sovereign with strong borders because you want to protect it. That’s nationalism. Arguably bad, but somewhat understandable given the material conditions most people grow up in.

            Say instead you love your country and believe it should be dominate over all other countries and that all other peoples in all other countries are lesser for failing to have been born in your country and you should have a strong military and strike first at your enemies who will undoubtedly attack you at any moment because they’re so jealous of your obvious and clear superiority as a country that there’s no other choice but to invade and kill. There’s the ultranationalist line.

            • orioler25@lemmy.ca
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              Right, could you like, cite anything to explain where you got this understanding? I can tell you can’t, because that second paragraph is imperialism, not nationalism, ultra or otherwise. You’d only make that mistake if you were just vibe-defining this, so I wonder why you felt the need to do this at all.

              Nationalism isn’t just “when a place borders,” it is a specific set of relations and politics where ownership over land and access to the resources of that land is privileged through the arbitrary restriction to a naturalized (as in, imagined to be intrinsically and inevitably guaranteed power) group of people and dispossessed from an exploited or colonized group of people. It emerged in the late-eighteenth and nineteenth centuries as a way to rationalize settler-colonial hierarchies and unify disparate groups of European peoples in the imperial peripheries and metropole around manufactured cultural commonalities like language or heritage. I’m sure you’re aware of German Wars of Unification and their subsequent consequences. New Brunswick and Saskatchewan don’t have obviously similar material conditons besides that they are on the same continent and have similar ways of life forced onto them by a settler-colonial, liberal capitalist state. Settlers in both of those provinces do imagine a common national identity, which is “Canadian,” but that is something intentionally constructed by the state. And no, it isn’t “arguably” bad, unless you’re about to try and argue that the genocide and dispossession of indigenous peoples is only relatively wrong.

              Imperialism is the subordination of other groups of people by a privileged group of people within a metropole or core to facilitate the extraction of resources back to that metropole through economic, political, or military coercion. Though it certainly may involve nationalism, as EuroAmerican imperialism does today, it is a distinct set of politics that does not require the same relations as nationalism as it refers to specifically the subordination of external groups of peoples and their lands to the benefit of the privileged, imperialistic group. Canada and the US began as settler-colpnial states on the eastern half of the continent now called North America, and both have expanded westward as part of imperialistic campaigns against indigenous peoples so secure access to the land for their settlers and therefore the transference of resources and power to the benefit of the metropole. Both foster national identities, but those identities are actually subsequent developments of their imperialism and function more to maintain control of those holdings by the metropoles than it was a means to facilitate that expansion.

              These things are often cooperative, but they are by no means one thing. Israel is indeed a settler-colonial state occupying Palestine, but it’s one founded on nationalism by the creation of an arbitrary, “unified” Jewish ethnic identity (that also excludes black and African Jewish peoples) and relies on that to exist. Their expansionist and fascistic (which is found in that crisis narrative you reference as the “need” to eradicate potential threating groups) politics are indeed an example of the interrelation between nationalism and imperialism, but are not fundamentally different than Canadian and USAmerican nationalisms and imperialisms just by merit of being “more” violent, and therefore does not constitute some comic-book power up of those politics.

              The only reason to distinguish it in the way you and the other commenter has is to misinform and exceptionalize Israel’s settler-colonial genocide of Palestinians and salvage some national identity for equally genocidal states like those in Europe and North America (whom cooperate with Israel for this very reason).

              Fucking stop talking about shit you don’t know about, ffs with people on here.

    • orioler25@lemmy.ca
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      Nationalism (no, not “ultranationalism”) is fundamentally hateful in its arbitrary assignment of an idealized group of people with a natural right to land. Zionism has been oriented around Palestinian dispossession and erasure since its emergence in the late-nineteenth and early-twentieth centuries, there is no “inward-focused” element here that somehow doesn’t make it an international ideological movement in Canada (which is also a genocidal, settler-colonial state with an interest in protecting Israel’s right to commit genocide). There aren’t any especially naughty Zionists that make the movement look bad, it is fundamentally a genocidal endeavour the same way every settler-colonial state is.

      I really hope you have at least one reading on any of these topics to recommend since you’re making some pretty incredible claims here that defy most historical and decolonial scholarship on them.

    • Rat_in_a_hat@lemmy.ca
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      You should probably read a few lines from Jabotinsky (a popular Zionist Nationalist). He uses blood and land tropes a lot.

      • Em Adespoton@lemmy.ca
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        I’ve read just enough to not want to ever read anything by the guy again. As I said, the two go hand in hand, and he’s a prime example of that.

        • Rat_in_a_hat@lemmy.ca
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          I disagree with your framing because it makes it seem like Zionism isn’t inherently hateful, just some people coopting the ideology are.

          But the very founders and people that created the ideology were hateful, as a matter of fact.

          You’re framing an ethno-supremacist ideology that was created at the same time that other very hateful ethno-supremacist ideologies were created and trying to say it isn’t inherently hateful.

          That’s like saying Naziism wasn’t inherently hateful, but people coopted the ideology. They’re literally of the same cloth, friend.

          • acargitz@lemmy.ca
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            il y a 8 heures

            You’re framing an ethno-supremacist ideology that was created at the same time that other very hateful ethno-supremacist ideologies were created and trying to say it isn’t inherently hateful.

            That’s exactly why I’m comparing it with every other balkan nationalism of the time. Take Greek or Bulgarian or Italian or Hungrian or Turkish or any other nationalism that was being conceived in, well, the age of nationalism, in the end of the 19th century, and they all share the same ethno-supremacist characteristics.

              • acargitz@lemmy.ca
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                il y a 4 heures

                That’s usually what ethnonationalism means in the New World, where there are things like white nationalism etc. In the Old World, ethno-nationalism is a diverse set of ideologies. And the idea of “blood purity” is also not expressed as that radical or controversial in the many many states that follow a jus sanguinis system.

                There is absolutely there a structure that makes it extremely easy to slide into hateful politics. Which is why I’m not defending ethno-nationalism, in fact I agree that it is an aberration that should be abolished. I am just pointing out that there is nothing particularly unique about jewish ethno-nationalism. It is currently undergoing a radical phase, but again that’s not historically unique to it. That’s literally how the Turks ended up genociding the Armenians. I am not normalizing or excusing, merely de-exceptionalizing. Nothing special about zionism. Just another shitty ethno-nationalism, same shit we’ve seen many times over.

    • acargitz@lemmy.ca
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      il y a 1 jour

      I kind of agree. I don’t think Zionism is that much different from any other shitty nationalism, and I’m saying this from the point of view of the Balkans. Like the Zionist Jews are not doing anything particularly new that, say, the Croatian Ustasha, or the Serb Chetniks, or the Kemalist Turks, or the Bulgarian fascists, or our own nationalist Greeks, etc didn’t already do at some point in the last century or so. Even the settler aspect is not that unique, just look into how us Greeks colonized and cleansed Macedonia or what the Turks did to us and the Armenians and in northern Cyprus. The only difference is that they also have nukes, and a blank check from the Americans to do whatever the fuck they want.

      • Canaconda@lemmy.ca
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        il y a 1 jour

        Zionists are the only ones throwing parades in Toronto to support genocide on the other side of the globe.

        • acargitz@lemmy.ca
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          il y a 1 jour

          Well, that might be true nowadays, but that’s hardly again unique to zionist jews. Random example, the Orange Parade has been held continually since 1821. I also vaguely remember anti-Tamil mobilizations during the last phase of the Tamil genocide in Toronto, where they flew a plane with a sky message against the Tamils. When the recognition of the Armenian genocide was discussed in Parliament, the Turkish community also mobilized. In the 1930s the Deutscher Bund Canada held pro-nazi rallies.

          And also let’s not forget, well, Canada Day, our very own celebration of our own genocide against indigenous people.

          A big difference of course is that the zionist events are larger and have more political coverage (with the exception of Canada Day). So in that sense, the title of the OP article is kind of good, in identifying them as “most-successful”. But they are not unprecedented.

          • Canaconda@lemmy.ca
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            il y a 1 jour

            Random example, the Orange Parade has been held continually since 1821.

            Actually that’s a perfect example of what I’m talking about. White supremists, Orange Order, even pride parades, are all celebrating the people in the parade. Zionists “March for Israel” every year in Toronto.

            Zionism is also fundamentally about committing genocide in a specific region. White supremacy would be fine with Blacks living in the USA so long as they’re subjugated.

            And also let’s not forget, well, Canada Day, our very own celebration of our own genocide against indigenous people.

            Yea that’s a shit take

            • acargitz@lemmy.ca
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              il y a 1 jour

              Zionists are also fine with Palestinians in “Greater Israel” so long as they are subjugated/second class and don’t ask for national determination, they literally passed that racist law last year or whatever. That’s how they have treated Israeli Arabs since the Nakba. In a way they prefer it like that because it legitimizes them as a benevolent majority (“the only democracy” narrative).

              Not sure what exactly you’re reacting against with such ferocity. De-exceptionalizing Zionism as just one more shitty nationalism of the kind we’ve seen already in action in my neck of the woods in the Balkans is not creating excuses for it. Quite the contrary.